Deang Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 While searching and reading about "hysteresis" from the use of iron core inductors/autoformers, I ran across this article. An entire industry has been created around the idea of adding certain types of distortion back into music so that it will actually sound like music again. http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb10/articles/analoguewarmth.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 (edited) Very interesting article. Plug in software to emulate wow and flutter, tape saturation, and tube warmth so that digital recording can sound more analog like. Reminds me of the Yamamoto A08 amplifier with its high distortion and loyal following. Granted it is a thing of beauty. Edited December 4, 2013 by Tarheel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted December 4, 2013 Share Posted December 4, 2013 Speech and Music REPRODUCTION is, inherently, an "illusion" of the highest order. It is a never ending quest of diminishing returns and barking up wrong trees (like speaker cables, OMG). Vacuum tubes operate at high voltages with high source impedance. They have a voltage to voltage transfer functions. Modern loudspeakers are low/varying impedance devices that sometimes require lots of current to work well.This is the opposite of how tubes work, so the using transformer as "voltage to current" devices is a must for them to work.This makes the transformers a VERY important component in the chain of reproductions. Lots of quality variables are at work with just those. Tube "warmth" has more to do with the preponderance of even order harmonic distortion that has to further work impedance matching to speakers systems that must further "acoustically transformed" the that interacts with the room and our perception system. Tape produces low level hiss for the recording to work against. Without noise reduction "compander" tricks, like Dolby or DBX, the best signal to noise ratio available from reel to reel tape is about 60 db vs. the noise floor. Lots of systems at work there, so pick your favorite distortions to render what you believe is the best illusion and enjoy it. I will remind you, however, that the possible signal to noise ratio of Digital Signal Processing (given enough bits and clock speeds) is in excess of 120 db, So the 60 db difference in Signal to Noise ratio is 1,000,000 to 1 times better. This reminds me of all the Photoshop Plug In software that emulates old films by introducing THOSE non-linear distortions back into a linear system for effect. LOL. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 interesting article. The mood and character of the sound produces how we precieve warmth. So, accuray and faithful reproduction is not necessarily the goal to reach. Maybe getting the perfect sound for an individual is not all science and there is some art work that needs to be done by the listener along with the gear that he is using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 Tube "warmth" has more to do with the preponderance of even order harmonic distortion... Only if it's a badly designed amplifier and it's a pure distortion generator. What's interesting here is that the human ear seems to find "perfect reproduction" for the most part kind of annoying, and what point is there in its pursuit if it doesn't keep you in the listening chair. This "by the numbers" sound is often so sterile and thin that many don't even bother to sit and actually listen anymore. When music is no longer captivating, it's no longer music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWL Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) What's interesting here is that the human ear seems to find "perfect reproduction" for the most part kind of annoying, and what point is there in its pursuit if it doesn't keep you in the listening chair. This "by the numbers" sound is often so sterile and thin that many don't even bother to sit and actually listen anymore. I totally agree....couldn't have said it better myself. Edited December 6, 2013 by SWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 Tube "warmth" has more to do with the preponderance of even order harmonic distortion... Only if it's a badly designed amplifier and it's a pure distortion generator. What's interesting here is that the human ear seems to find "perfect reproduction" for the most part kind of annoying, and what point is there in its pursuit if it doesn't keep you in the listening chair. This "by the numbers" sound is often so sterile and thin that many don't even bother to sit and actually listen anymore. When music is no longer captivating, it's no longer music. Don't confuse musical production with reproduction. If the Producer of a recording wants to "warm" the sound or use compression other techniques to achieve a certain sound that's one thing, but intentionally distorting within the reproduction chain isn't the same thing. When a euphonic device is used in playback the distortion cannot be controlled, and will not sound good on all recordings. I prefer to let the producer/engineer make the recording sound like s/he wants and reproduce that sound as perfectly and cleanly as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 I have a friend who produces and creates his own music all from digital sources and instruments. The music has an eerily quiet background. I find it interesting but this is also present in electronica music in the same camp. I think this works for some kinds of music but not all. Would it work to record Daft Punk like they recorded Jazz artist of the 50's which is tape and tubes and of course produced extremely well. An example would be the Mercury recordings. There is much to learn from recording technologies of the past and the different atmospheres they create. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 6, 2013 Author Share Posted December 6, 2013 (edited) When a euphonic device is used in playback the distortion cannot be controlled, and will not sound good on all recordings. I think the evidence is mounting up in such a way to fully support the statement that the great majority of recording engineers have absolutely no idea how to create a recording that does any justice to the music. I just alluded to this in another thread -- the more transparent a system is, the worse the recordings seem to sound. You end up listening to only a handful of things because that's all you can tolerate. The battle is fought on two fronts: trying to find "musical" recordings, and using equipment that's capable of providing a "musical listening experience". What we certainly don't have control over is the plethora of bad recordings, but we do have control over the components we choose to use. A "euphonic device" or component, at least the ones I have direct experience with, though having slightly elevated forms of certain kinds of distortion -- on the whole still measure quite well. If the end result is a subjectively more pleasing listening experience -- maybe what we should really be doing is redefining what "accurate reproduction" means. Edited December 6, 2013 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 The hiss of acetate tape was always the assurance that it had extended frequency response. My first thought on hearing Dolby was that it was unsatisfying and sounded like a low pass filter had been inserted. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted December 6, 2013 Share Posted December 6, 2013 For me tape hiss is not inherent to the media. Some of the best music I have ever heard on my system are tapes from the Tape Project. The are direct copies of the original mix down master tapes. They are dead quiet on my Tascasm and heard through 6CA7 tube amps and 100dB+ efficient horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted December 7, 2013 Share Posted December 7, 2013 (edited) For me tape hiss is not inherent to the media. Some of the best music I have ever heard on my system are tapes from the Tape Project. The are direct copies of the original mix down master tapes. They are dead quiet on my Tascasm and heard through 6CA7 tube amps and 100dB+ efficient horns. I have quite a few of these tapes myself and on two different decks there is zero tape hiss, this through my all tube system and 108db efficent horns!!! Edited December 7, 2013 by canyonman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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