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Sound/sub Philosophy from a Speaker Designer


ClaudeJ1
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I just got some 18" sub drivers and 6 cubic foot bass reflex cabs to measure and incorporate with a pair of Klipsch KP-200's in a 2.1 configuration. I will be measuring and listening, but, more than likely, I will build some horn enclosures (probably modified F-20's) for those drivers as soon as I get the rest of my measuring gear up and running. The quotes below are from Bill Fitzmaurice, designer of the excellent Tuba HT horn sub:

(about direct radiators)<<That 'impact' is probably harmonic distortion, and most likely heard in the midbass. That's part and parcel with a direct radiator. It's what's responsible for being able to directionally locate subs even with 80Hz low pass filtering. It's also what you don't get from a KHorn, or from a folded horn sub. IME folded horn subs work well with horn loaded mains and with direct radiator mains, but direct radiator subs and horn loaded mains aren't a very good combination unless you're running enough of them to keep the THD very low. IMO matching a KHorn and a small sealed sub is akin to a horse riding a man, as opposed to a man riding a horse, especially as a small sealed sub probably has no lower an f3 than the KHorn.

That's going to be the problem trying to match the output of horn loaded woofers with direct radiating subs. You can do it, with a wall full of eighteens, but at that point you might as well have just gone with the horn loaded sub anyway. I find that direct radiating tops can work well with horn loaded subs, so long as they have adequate sensitivity to keep up. That could mean using a large high sensitivity woofer, or a line array of smaller woofers. >>

Edited by ClaudeJ1
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Have you ever designed a horn sub?

Horn woofer to 60 Hz., yes, horn sub, no, but it's another project on a long list. I like the idea of a modified F-20, since I already have two Danley DTS-10's. The F-20 has the same footprint as my Lab 12 Tapped Horn that I built (from another designer). A longer and/or taller F-20 type with an 18 would be awesome and get well over 100 Hz., which the tapped horns get funky after about 70 Hz.

I really like Lil Mike's folding scheme on the F-20

Edited by ClaudeJ1
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Have you ever designed a horn sub?

Horn woofer to 60 Hz., yes, horn sub, no, but it's another project on a long list. I like the idea of a modified F-20, since I already have two Danley DTS-10's. The F-20 has the same footprint as my Lab 12 Tapped Horn that I built (from another designer). A longer and/or taller F-20 type with an 18 would be awesome and get well over 100 Hz., which the tapped horns get funky after about 70 Hz.

I really like Lil Mike's folding scheme on the F-20

after living with it for almost 2 years, I still very much love my F-20. sure, there are subs that dig deeper but I never seem to find myself desiring more when i'm in the middle of an action scene.

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Have you ever designed a horn sub?

Horn woofer to 60 Hz., yes, horn sub, no, but it's another project on a long list. I like the idea of a modified F-20, since I already have two Danley DTS-10's. The F-20 has the same footprint as my Lab 12 Tapped Horn that I built (from another designer). A longer and/or taller F-20 type with an 18 would be awesome and get well over 100 Hz., which the tapped horns get funky after about 70 Hz.

I really like Lil Mike's folding scheme on the F-20

after living with it for almost 2 years, I still very much love my F-20. sure, there are subs that dig deeper but I never seem to find myself desiring more when i'm in the middle of an action scene.

I'd be real happy with 20 Hz cutoff instead of the 10-15 from my Super Spuds, just to get to above 100 Hz. to mate with a different top end for my 2.1 setup for vinyl collection. Already have the HT part covered, not on to 2.1 in a different room. Can you imagine monster 18" drivers in a modified F-20? Ridiculously low distortion with massive output power using very few watts. Horn subs forever.

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TUTORAL for designing tapped horns, for when the time is right. You'll need hornresp. I believe there's a link there also.

Used Horn Resp to design my bass horns. Very good simple software. Danley said he would have given his right arm to have Hornresp 20 years ago.

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This sounds lik a great project. I will follow the build thread. Good luck!

Since the woofers currently have 6 cubic foot vented boxes, I will try those first to see how well they mate with a K-43 woofer and ESS AMT Tweeter, both with low Xover points. I may not have to build a horn, but if I do, I will have to make sure I go to the trouble of measuring the T/S parameters first to see if the woofer will work in an F-20, which is an "offset horn" design. The most I would have to modify to let the woofer fit is 1/4-1/2 inch. It may also need to lenghten to allow for a larger back air chamber, but there is much work and listening to do first with the new system. I'm leaning towards a full horn design, like the F-20 since I like the folding and simple construction along with the versatile footprint.

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Have you ever designed a horn sub?

Horn woofer to 60 Hz., yes, horn sub, no, but it's another project on a long list. I like the idea of a modified F-20, since I already have two Danley DTS-10's. The F-20 has the same footprint as my Lab 12 Tapped Horn that I built (from another designer). A longer and/or taller F-20 type with an 18 would be awesome and get well over 100 Hz., which the tapped horns get funky after about 70 Hz.

I really like Lil Mike's folding scheme on the F-20

after living with it for almost 2 years, I still very much love my F-20. sure, there are subs that dig deeper but I never seem to find myself desiring more when i'm in the middle of an action scene.

I'm sure I could change your mind if I hooked up a DTS-10 and more watts in it's place. Going down to 10 Hz. is another octave below what you have. But, it is diminishing returns since LFE channels with that super low content is rare. The Flight of the Phoenix plane crash is one and it has 5 Hz. content!

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