jorjen Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I have the K-31's in my Jubilee clone bass bins and am very pleased. Just curious if there might be something better? Mr. Crites woofers, Eminence, different model Klipsch woofer, etc. Could not find any previous discussions, forgive me if I missed something. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 I have the K-31's in my Jubilee clone bass bins and am very pleased. Just curious if there might be something better? Mr. Crites woofers, Eminence, different model Klipsch woofer, etc. Could not find any previous discussions, forgive me if I missed something. JC mentioned a few woofers that may be good. What I wonder is how good? How much better? If your bored it may be worth trying out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modified-Tractrix Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 Several people have said good things about the Eminence Kappalite 3012lf. If you wanted to go that way drop me an email or PM. I bought 4 of those for a project that never came to fruition. They are NIB and I could give a pretty good deal on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 20, 2014 Share Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) Several people have said good things about the Eminence Kappalite 3012lf. If you wanted to go that way drop me an email or PM. I bought 4 of those for a project that never came to fruition. They are NIB and I could give a pretty good deal on them. I believe those are the woofers I tested at Panacea Engineering in his experiemental "jube-like drones." I think they have a better high and without giving up much of anything at the low end. It will change Roy's PEQ, if that is what you are using. I don't know about "better" but different with a stronger motor, might be a more accurate description. Edited January 20, 2014 by ClaudeJ1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 21, 2014 Share Posted January 21, 2014 Hey jorgen MY first response whenever someone ask a question like yours and has what I would consider an already advance and high performance system is have you dealt with what is almost always the weakest componet in the majority of all reproduction systems? The performance of the room componet is every part the equal in importance to any other componet of a reproduction system..! IMHO In the case of the Jub LF I wouldn't spend money on different woofers if I had any evidence that the room's acoustics has issues especially in the frequency range below 250Hz where room modes often limits the reproduction system from reaching it's full potential until properly dealt with. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted January 24, 2014 Author Share Posted January 24, 2014 (edited) Hey jorgen MY first response whenever someone ask a question like yours and has what I would consider an already advance and high performance system is have you dealt with what is almost always the weakest componet in the majority of all reproduction systems? The performance of the room componet is every part the equal in importance to any other componet of a reproduction system..! IMHO In the case of the Jub LF I wouldn't spend money on different woofers if I had any evidence that the room's acoustics has issues especially in the frequency range below 250Hz where room modes often limits the reproduction system from reaching it's full potential until properly dealt with. miketn I dealt with the room long ago Mike. Proper placement of diffusion, absorption and bass traps, check! I am just bored awaiting arrival of my new NBS pre. I am very pleased with my bass, just a question of curiosity mainly, something to talk about. Edited January 24, 2014 by jorjen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted January 24, 2014 Share Posted January 24, 2014 I dealt with the room long ago Mike. Proper placement of diffusion, absorption and bass traps, check! I am just bored awaiting arrival of my new NBS pre. I am very pleased with my bass, just a question of curiosity mainly, something to talk about. Hey jorgen I would really like to see some pictures of your setup/room if you have a link or would like to share some pictures .....there is very little posted on the forum when it comes to someone's listening room yet it is such an important part of the resultant listening experience and speaking for myself it helps me to understand better where someone is coming from when they talk about their listening experiences that they post about. I've been following your NBS build and it looks very well made from the pictures you've posted and sounds like a very solid design from what I've read so far. I definitly understand the curosity and the need to play always striving for that next level of reality from our music systems and my next adventure is modifying my garage into a dedicated listening room for the Jubs.. miketn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It is difficult to find a 12" woofer with the kind of T/S like the K-31. Nobody makes that kinda driver anymore with the large Vas, Low Fs and low QES unless a sub. The pioneers use to have specs close.....but just don't have the meat on them to slam you. The below are considerations if you want to experiment. http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/3124.pdf http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Kappalite_3012LF The GPA driver I would bet isn't cheap. But my guess is that it would bet good low end like the K31. The eminence Neo drivers are a hit. I Had the 15 inch neo one horn loaded....sounds very good in a Titan sub. The Kappa pro 12 sounds very good and I thought a little cleaner.....but doesn't have low end grunt. Bummer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 It is difficult to find a 12" woofer with the kind of T/S like the K-31. Nobody makes that kinda driver anymore with the large Vas, Low Fs and low QES unless a sub. I'm not sure if I've seen the T/S measurements for the K-31 anywhere. How do the Altec GPA 414-8B Thiele-Small measurements look to you for the Jubilee? Re 7.28 ohms (25'C) Fs 25.6 Hz Qts 0.22 Qms 7.53 Qes 0.23 Sd 78.54 in2 (0.051m2) Xmax 0.15in (4mm) Vd 11.78in3 (0.19L) Vas 9.29 ft3 (263.1 L) No 1.85% http://www.greatplainsaudio.com/downloads/414-8B%20Spec%20Sheet.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Yes. That is close too. Alnico magnet though....didn't consider it. How much does that cost......I would bet pricey. The T/S for the K-31 is in the jubilee AES paper. Don't have it handy at the moment. If memory serves has a Fs of 19Hz. Qes about 0.17. VAS is big for a 12" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Yes. That is close too. Alnico magnet though....didn't consider it. How much does that cost......I would bet pricey. The T/S for the K-31 is in the jubilee AES paper. Don't have it handy at the moment. If memory serves has a Fs of 19Hz. Qes about 0.17. VAS is big for a 12" His current prices on eBay (ID = $billatgpa) 414-8B Alnico magnet: $330 each 414-8C Ceramic magnet: $240 each 3124 (title in ad shows 3127 but linked to 3124 specs): $230 each Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 good info...thx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 K-31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 pioneers of the past... 290-118.pdf 290-118f.txt 290-118z.txt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fjd Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 K-31 Thanks, they are different than we typically see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgar Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 K31 in gray, EVM12L in black; no other changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 There are some other woofers that I think would do better on the high end.... Edgar....can you plug in these for my curiosity.... http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Kappa_Pro_12A http://www.eminence.com/speakers/speaker-detail/?model=Delta_12LFA I spec'd out the Delta LFA on my minipunchhorn design as a good option. Would think it would work well in the Jube but little loss low end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 Quick question, even though the specs don't look that great. It could still produce godo frequency response. As the specs show on the k-31 the Fs are 19, and the vas is 386L from what I can read. On the EVM12L the specs aren't that great, how does it test out good. I guess things can look good on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I'm sure there are many woofers that will "work". The hard thing is....getting one to play 40Hz and below and get out to 5-600Hz. Think about it...getting a 12" to sound good in sub 40Hz application then get out to say 600Hz. Hard enough in bass reflex designs....then stick a horn on it....esp a folded one. Woofers now have a higher Fs and lower Vas will slightly larger QTS and QES. If you think about it.....to Calculate St and "annul" for the driver in the horn....it can still calculate out to "work and the Fs went up and the Vas went down. ie. Such as St = 0.8 x Fs x Qes x VAS in. So look at that....one goes up while the other value goes down...... Plenty of eminence options to try to get out to 5-600Hz......but hard to find one that has some low end grunt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted January 25, 2014 Share Posted January 25, 2014 I'm sure there are many woofers that will "work". The hard thing is....getting one to play 40Hz and below and get out to 5-600Hz. Think about it...getting a 12" to sound good in sub 40Hz application then get out to say 600Hz. Hard enough in bass reflex designs....then stick a horn on it....esp a folded one. Woofers now have a higher Fs and lower Vas will slightly larger QTS and QES. If you think about it.....to Calculate St and "annul" for the driver in the horn....it can still calculate out to "work and the Fs went up and the Vas went down. ie. Such as St = 0.8 x Fs x Qes x VAS in. So look at that....one goes up while the other value goes down...... Plenty of eminence options to try to get out to 5-600Hz......but hard to find one that has some low end grunt. Thanks for chiming in on this thread. Good info. Glad I have 8 of the k31s already loaded into the snailtracs and jubs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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