pzannucci Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Pzannucci not A+B, left front and left rear parallel when facing k-horns.Sounds awesome. But no bass. Paralleled, you can't guaranty the frequency response due to the different loads. Additionally that is a heavy load on that receiver isn't helping. Start with just the khorns hooked up and diagnose it that way. If you have solid corners and can sit about 12 feet away from both of them, if there is nothing wrong with the wiring and drivers, you should have reasonable bass. You will not have extreme bass as many think bass is supposed to be. The mid and treble will over power the bass if you are too close and the speakers are too close together. About 25 feet away, you will get the thump. BTW, how large did you say your room is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Could one speaker be out of phase? (wired backwards + to - instead of + to + and - to -) Canceling out the bass. Dennie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Ok, here is what I did. Unhooked the heresys,unhooked the sub as in unplugged it. Set speakers to large which they were currently set to,selected "main" for bass and no difference! Starting to git a bit frazzled!So then I hooked up the here sys to speaker B and played them w/o sub and no bass (i know heresys don't have much bottom end)best description is thin and muddy bass response on both pair. I do not think there is anything wrong with my K-horn drivers do you? I am a little concerned about that but the heresys sound like crap too! Edited January 23, 2014 by loudandclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 Phase is good. Room size 16x16. I have a pair in another room diven by a Adcom 555,same exact speakers, same year, same mods all done at same time. That room is 16x18. good bass response from those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 You said your room is 16 x 16 right, your sweet spot should be right at about 8' which would put you in the center of the room. I don't know if you are 8' back, but if you are try moving forward or back a couple of feet. I know they say square rooms aren't great for audio. You could be setting right in a null. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Is there a way to check the woofer driver other than a ohm meter? Just want to verify with anyone if it could be the receiver before i tear everything down from another system to try another receiver. Edited January 23, 2014 by loudandclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 It doesn't sound like just phase, but "phase" can be funny in K-horns -- the drivers must be in phase not only BETWEEN the 2 k-horns, but WITHIN both K-horns between the DRIVERS. IOW, the two tweeters can be in phase, and the two MR's, and yet the two woofs can be out of phase with each other! This would result in a woofer and a MR being out of phase with each other, on one side! If you get the weird out-of-phase sound anywhere within the full range -- hole-in-the-middle, trying to pull your ears apart in your head, sound jumping between the speakers as you move your head around between them, etc. -- you probably should go driver-pair-by-driver-pair until you solve it. Another possibility might be a bad amp or receiver, so do you have another one to try to substitute? Make sure both woofers sound identical to each other, and to those in your other system. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Is there a way to check the woofer driver other than a ohm meter? Personally, I always go by how they sound. Edited January 23, 2014 by LarryC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Point being Larry, there just isn't much there but they "show" they are "alive" with an ohm meter,if that makes any sense. Also they sound totally in phase as for the tweeters and mids. Edited January 23, 2014 by loudandclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 I think you are going to have to wrestle another source into the room to test those Khorns. It's the easiest way to figure out if the woofers or the receiver are at fault. Do you have an old stereo receiver in a closet somewhere? It won't take 5 watts to test these things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Or just bring the receiver into the room with the other khorns. You can rule out the receiver at least. Bring your wires. Hopefully it is a quick hook up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) The quotation device on the forum is not working, therefore: Quote: ... BTW my room size is small 16x16. The reason I am running them in parallel is because I dig the sound it produces. I sit in the middle of the room and all four speakers are toed at 45 degrees ... Unquote Square rooms (16 x 16) are not great ... they superimpose some of the modes. Someone into the applied science of acoustics may have some advice on how to make up for this. For the smoothest bass, you shouldn't sit dead center in both directions. This also screws up the influence of the modes. Most people would want to sit on the center line between the Klipschorns, but not centered front to back, midway between a Khorn and a Heresy. Try sitting about 1/3 of the way back from the front, with the rear speakers tuned up, or (better??) 2/3 of the way back with the rear speakers turned down. Others, who know more than me, might adjust these recommendations. My Klipschorns have terrific, high impact, bass (better transients than my sub can manage) above 80 Hz for sure, and perhaps above 40 Hz.* They will not, however, create the artificial "burpy" "floppy" bass that some speakers (including my sub) do put out. I end up turning off my sub and setting the Khorns for "Large" for some music. For most music, and virtually all movies, I have the sub on, crossing over at 80 Hz, with the Khorns either set for "Small" (which has nothing to do with size), or set for "Large" with the pre-amp subwoofer output set for "LFE + Main." I do this knowing that it is quite politically incorrect in audio circles. Almost all experts hate it, but I seem to like it. I have very little, if any, phase cancelation, as supported by both my ears and REW sweeps. When using the sub, I go back and forth between "Large" with "LFE + Main" and "Small." "Large," without "LFE + Main" means "send all bass to the main speakers, and send nothing to the sub." "LFE + Main" brings the sub back into the picture. * Upper Bass is 150 Hz to about 250 Hz, Mid Bass is about 80 - 150 Hz, and Low Bass is below about 80 Hz. The Khorns walk all over most other speakers above 80. Mine have a little dip just below 80, and come back wonderfully below 60 Hz, down to about 30 or 35. They are still putting out bass, but attenuated, below 25 Hz. The ONLY reason I have a sub is for special effects in movies, which go down to about 15 Hz (or lower!). Edited January 23, 2014 by Garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 Yes i will try hooking that receiver to my otter pair of k-horns, I thought of that as well as it would be easier than tearing down a different system, in my case. I do sit 2/3 of the way back from the k-horns because the k-horns play louder because of efficiency,I just like that arrangement but it may not be for some I suppose. Sound seems like its coming from the ceiling, but still have separation and imaging. All speakers have identical components. Heresys are 77 vintage WO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axz Hout Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) So what I'm doing is wrong as far as wiring both pair together? Is there a way i can listen to both the way i have my set-up? Edited January 23, 2014 by loudandclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Sound seems like its coming from the ceiling, The sound source appearing to jump around to odd places as you move around still suggests a phasing problem to me, between some pair of the six drivers. Does the source seem to jump around if you walk around the K's from side to side and sitting vs. standing? Edited January 23, 2014 by LarryC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) Sorry, that is the way the music is "displayed" it just fills the room you can't tell where its coming from , just sounds amazing,like you are there. That is what i was referring to by "coming from the ceiling"! Sorry. The imaging is awesome thats why i didn't think wiring them parallel was a bad thing. Sounds great to me other than no bass. Edited January 23, 2014 by loudandclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarlB Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 When I used the Klipschorns with a Denon AVR-1912 the low end and punchiness was non existant. I'm not an expert, but I've noticed that the affordable AVRs really do not do well with these speakers. I switched to a Peachtree Audio nova125 and it really woke them up. The only thing that might be lacking is that sub-bass shake for movies. I am addressing that with a XS30. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudandclear Posted January 23, 2014 Author Share Posted January 23, 2014 (edited) I have heard that AVRs really aren't a good match also, some said its because they have a sub out jack, just not their niche! Proly gonna go the vintage route. What do you think about a Marantz 2020b? Big enough? I can get one for 150. Edited January 23, 2014 by loudandclear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted January 23, 2014 Share Posted January 23, 2014 Is there a way to check the woofer driver other than a ohm meter? Just want to verify with anyone if it could be the receiver before i tear everything down from another system to try another receiver. Yes. A sinewave signal generator, a known good amplifier and a SPL meter or RTA. An oscilloscope can also come in handy. BTW what is resistance reading on the other sets woofers? Anybody ---Does 2.5 ohms on the woofer sound correct? babadono Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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