Cable myths

[ZAKO]

You mean that my barbed wire speaker wire will not give me a sharper sound ?????

[dtel]

You mean that my barbed wire speaker wire will not give me a sharper sound ?????

Depends on the brand ?

[bracurrie]

I just installed some 15 yr old MIT interconnects and the difference is stunning. They look great. And sound good too.

All I can tell is that beyond basic electrical characteristics the differences are simply subjective. You cannot argue opinions to any resolution.

[ClaudeJ1]

Walk away from the keyboard. I repeat, walk away from the keyboard......................

[Sancho Panza]

You mean that my barbed wire speaker wire will not give me a sharper sound ?????

I'm saving up for Triple-strand concertina speaker wire.

[psg]

Mark, with all due respect I have to call . The science is pretty clear about wires: no magic involved, or hidden measurements the engineers are ignoring, just basic stuff. And psychology has a lot to say about cognitive dissonance when pre-conceived notions are confronted with conflicting empirical evidence, so I think the audiophools indeed do want to believe. Your post helps enable such beliefs, leading the gullible on a potentially expensive snipe hunt.

I would suggest a simple experiment you can do at home. Connect your speakers with 20 feet of 26ga wire and give a good listen. Then connect them with 20 feet of 12 ga and repeat the listening test. It has nothing to do with "magic." I said earlier this is not about the ads produced by wire and cable companies, it is about the listening. No magic is involved - ever.

When you begin by denigrating a class of people as "audiophools" you tip your hand and reveal a bias that is probably too strong to over come. But who knows? Try the test if you like, and see if you hear anything.

Why would I intentionally use a cable that will roll off the highs? Sorry Mark, but comparing a long run of narrow gauge wire just supports the science, not the woo.

I tend to err on the conservative side: all my rigs use 14 or 12 gauge, all came off a spool as tall as I am at the local electronics surplus/wholesale store for pennies/foot. They even had techflex and all the goodies to spiff them up.

+1 on that!

Sure, wire gauge matters. So we go big enough to minimize resistance for the length required and large enough for the current draw. Saying that if you can hear the effect of 26 AWG, then don't discount that people can hear burn-in or cryo treatments is not a valid argument to me; one is rooted on known principles and the other isn't. Most fancy wire brands aren't selling bigger gauge; you can get that cheap from monoprice. They are selling other qualities.

Anyway, I like to keep my participation in this forum free of useless arguments, just as I stay away from them at family gatherings.

Edited January 24, 2014 by psg

[psg]

I was generalizing to (1) the video (wrt burn-in) and (2) what some speaker wire manufacturers are actually selling, which isn't gauge; it wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth.

So fine, to reply to you specifically: if I can hear the effect of 26 AWG, it doesn't mean that others can hear the difference between a sufficient gauge and an even larger one.

[Ski Bum]

I never made the argument "wire can't affect sound" nor expressed resentment towards anyone's hearing acuity prowess, just to take care of at least two of the many straw men who have crashed the party.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Ski Bum

[psg]

I was generalizing to (1) the video (wrt burn-in) and (2) what some speaker wire manufacturers are actually selling, which isn't gauge; it wasn't my intent to put words in your mouth.

So fine, to reply to you specifically: if I can hear the effect of 26 AWG, it doesn't mean that others can hear the difference between a sufficient gauge and an even larger one.

But it doesn't mean they can't, and that's the actual point I am making. The original challenge I gave SkiBum was for illustration purpose only. To demonstrate that without any doubt, wire can make an audible difference, and that furthermore, just about everyone can hear it if the difference is large enough.

If it's large enough, which it at one point it won't.

Some of the claims made by pro-wire people are just wild. Getting way more bass from their speakers for example. If this were the case, it would be trivial to measure with a microphone and REW, but no-one ever has.

Some claims can't be measured, sure, but some could be.

Once, on another forum, someone was recommending spending a $1500 speaker budget on $1000 speakers and $500 wires to get the best out of them, saying there was no point getting better $1480 speakers to run them on $20 wires from monoprice; that was throwing money away.

Let's move past wire gauge. People can also hear large differences in the cables used to connect their turntable to a preamp. These shielded cables can have a very wide value of capacitance. It's quite easy to hear the difference between capacitance values here, and in this case, there is no such idea as "sufficient," because the best sound might come from a high value, a low value, or a medium value of capacitance, depending on the components at either end. Have you heard this effect of wire or not?

I haven't had a turntable for 25 years. Interconnects and wire wire are different animals anyway.

Edited January 24, 2014 by psg

[psg]

Boy, you are really getting upset. No, writing something under your post doesn't imply you said anything. It's called trying to have a discussion. I'm out.

[psg]

I think getting out is a smart move for you, as I can't see that you have added any value.

Now who is taking personal shots! LOL!

[oldenough]

Entertaining!! I'm certainly not going to argue with the "Keeper of the Sound". Gotta go, my popcorn just popped.

[oldtimer]

Can you taste the difference between yellow and white popcorn? Compare the taste/texture advantages and disadvantages of Reddenbacker vs. other premium brands? Does it all just taste the same when you listen to the beatles, or does it depend on the floss/tape used afterwards, and whether the floss/tape is flavored or waxed? Has there even been a true scientific study regarding these issues?

[Ski Bum]

Let's go back to your first post where you were falling over yourself with apologia for marketing BS.

What they want is "better sound." Buying brand X cable doesn't represent a belief in the weird claims about pseudo science, it represents a belief that there are properties in sound gear which have audible effects and are not particularly measurable.

Folks are entitled to their own beliefs, but some beliefs are not borne out by cold, hard objective reality.

You proceed to this:

thus far, certain subtleties about what people hear and why, has escaped a proper scientific theory.

It won't escape a properly performed ABX test, regardless of our deeper understanding of neural processes. This hobby is about the music, you know, what you can actually hear, not obfuscation based on the limits of perceptual or cognitive science.

You end with this:

But I also have no doubt that some are gems and make things sound better.

Really? Well, that's, like, just your opinion, man. Claims require evidence, or they can legitimately be called out as BS.

Mark, I like you so much more when you make compelling arguments in The Great Accuracy Debate of 2014 than defending the cable voodoo marketing shtick. It's really below you, and you know it, which is why you're so hot under the collar. Cognitive dissonance?

Edited January 24, 2014 by Ski Bum