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KPT-305 MD questions


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#1 bracurrie

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Posted 28 January 2014 - 01:52 PM

The KPT-305 MD referenced on Klipsch's website http://www.klipsch.c...B/details#specs . I would like to understand how an 8 in driver is used on the K402 horn. Anybody got any other photos of the back of the horn?


Brad Currie 615.460.7777


#2 jwc

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 03:43 PM

Mark1101 has some.....I'll email him to here



#3 mark1101

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:24 PM

They mount an 8" driver with a can on the back of the driver, sealing it with the proper back loading volume. The box it comes in is open in the back, but is very sturdy to support the horns that sit on top of the 305. My cat sleeps in there. When you look down the throat you see the dust cap of an 8" driver set back an inch or two from the opening.

I ordered and paid for a pair of XII mid bass modules and the 305s showed up at my door.

I installed one and A/B'd with an installed XII and I honestly preferred the sound of the XII. Bear in mind not much comes out of these units. It is only 300-600 hz in my setup. In the grand scheme of things I don't notice any degradattion. The 305s play fine.

The 305 needs some EQ to kill a big spike around 500Hz. This is easily done and the settings can be found in the cinema brochure. I use slightly different settings from those.

I believe the improvement to be the fact that a K402 is used. The HF unit also uses a K402 horn. The XII had a very different looking horn.

If I was putting together an MCM I'd look for a used pair of XII first, then buy the 305s if not found. The XII used a 12" driver.


Edited by mark1101, 29 January 2014 - 05:27 PM.

KPT-MCM-4 Grand + 2 KPT-684 subs, '73 Cornwalls (C DB 15), ' Single '77 LaScala (LS BR), '81 Heresys (HOL), '83 Heresys (HWO).

#4 bracurrie

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 05:41 PM

Thanks jwc for sending mark1101. Thanks mark 1101 for sharing specifics.

I have no need for this component but I find it interesting. I see in your avatar that you have two k402s so I assume one is the 305. Would you be willing to share how you have the three way crossed over?


Brad Currie 615.460.7777


#5 jwc

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 09:08 PM

Now Mark has the 510 horn on the top. Notice also the pair 684 subs. This man has a 5-Way Klipsch pro system. Only Klipsch nut I know that can have those bragging rights.

He uses two Ashly processors and and combo of McIntosh amps and QSC pro.

Time aligned.....sweet. I've turned these babies up and sat back from them about 8 feet with some wiskey in hand. Forever memory.

cheers

jc



#6 jwc

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 09:09 PM

I should add that any Klipsch nut that has a KP 600 system has a 5-way setup too....just thought of that.



#7 ClaudeJ1

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Posted 29 January 2014 - 10:13 PM

I should add that any Klipsch nut that has a KP 600 system has a 5-way setup too....just thought of that.

The bigger the Klipsch the bigger the fanatic. Mark and I went that route in late 2007 within 2 weeks of each other. I also had DR subs but never in the photos. So Yes I had 5-way too (7 1/2 feet tall), now I'm down to 4-way and staying there (technically it's 3-way with subs), although I will be lowering my present stack from 6 to around 5 feet. Getting ready to build my second bass horn since I just picked up some newly reconed EVM 15L's today from a local sound company. I do want to measure the first one before I built it's twin, just to make sure it performs like hornresp says it should. Since the 402 can handle half of the midbass duties, I'm crossing at 300 Hz. with a rugged 1133. I designed my bass horn from 60-600, so it will cross at 300 also, intead of 600 like Mark is doing, negating the need for a separate midbass, which the MWMs do need. I'll also be time algning my stuff after I prove out the new woofers. I will docoment my second bill and give out plans if it works.

One of these days I'll get down there and hear Mark's system, even though I think he's gone overkill, I still admire what he has done, since he has the space for it. I don't.


Edited by ClaudeJ1, 29 January 2014 - 10:15 PM.

2.1/6.1=Front R+L=Sound Physics Labs (SPL) TD-1, Center=SPL Runt, SR, SL, and RC=Super Heresy's. All driven by Onkyo 818 AVR Amp section. Twin Danley DTS-10 Super Spud Subs front R and L side walls in corners driven by 0.2 Pre-Outs to Bryston 4B.
Oppo 83 SE with Sabre DACs for CD 2.1, HDMI out for 6.1 to Onkyo DSP's. Audyssey Multi EQ/XT32 room correction for ALL listening.

#8 mark1101

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:45 AM

JC stated what I have. I am running the 510 / HF K402 / MF 402 all on home audio McIntosh amps (MC-250s).........only 50 WPC each, all rebuilt by DeWick, tubey s/s sound. Took me a few years to accumulate. The MWMs get a QSC PLX2-1104 at 550 WPC, and 684 subs get a QSC PLX2-1804 at 900 WPC.

I use 2 Ashly processors which are identical except for I./O (3.6SP and 4.8SP) The 4.8SP controls the whole stack left and right, the 3.6SP only the subs.

I am using a McIntosh C220 tubed preamp and all my sources are connected to a Benchmark DAC2 (DVD, Dish Net, PC server, CDP digital, CDP analog). I have a NOSValves tube buffer on the tape loop that I can engage to make all sources even more tubey when desired.

The key to the whole thing working in a home environment is the gain structure. Processors like one volume and require a certain minimum signal level. Above that you have some head room to go louder. So the game is setting the lowest volume you would use to a level that makes the processors happy........but it can't be too far below max volume you would ever use. This took time to figure out. I use an RTA to balance the gains on all the amps. But the end result is that you can have a conversation 3 feet in front of the whole thing with it substantially loud and not think or feel that it is very loud at all. The separation is huge and there is no blaring. It gets loud very gracefully to a point that some might say........that's all it can do? I went for extreme sound quality and not extreme volume, but it can get loud enough. The system is quieter than any Heritage speaker I owned (almost no audible hiss at idle......or any volume without music playing).......It is very quiet and clean.

I have been happy with it.


Edited by mark1101, 30 January 2014 - 09:49 AM.

KPT-MCM-4 Grand + 2 KPT-684 subs, '73 Cornwalls (C DB 15), ' Single '77 LaScala (LS BR), '81 Heresys (HOL), '83 Heresys (HWO).

#9 mark1101

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 09:55 AM

To answer the question about crossover..........I use up to 300 on MWMs, 300-600 on the 305s, 600-6K on the 402HF, and 6k-20K on the 510HF. I use below 50 on the subs with a delay. The whole setup is then time aligned to the MWMs.


KPT-MCM-4 Grand + 2 KPT-684 subs, '73 Cornwalls (C DB 15), ' Single '77 LaScala (LS BR), '81 Heresys (HOL), '83 Heresys (HWO).

#10 bracurrie

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 10:54 AM

Don't mean to getting you to divulge secrets, but what tool and method did you use to get the time alignment done?

Brad Currie 615.460.7777


#11 mark1101

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 12:37 PM

There are no secrets. For time alignment I used a couple of methods. Klispch specs as a start. But I changed drivers and got the 305s, then added the subs so I just used a tape measure.

I found a tape measure works great.

All you are doing is compensating for the differing distances from voice coil to horn mouth of each chanel in the system.

The MWM is the longest horn. The 510 is the shortest followed by the subs. Then the 402, then 305.

My processors allow you to enter delay in Msec or feet (down to tenths). So a tape measure is a good tool.


KPT-MCM-4 Grand + 2 KPT-684 subs, '73 Cornwalls (C DB 15), ' Single '77 LaScala (LS BR), '81 Heresys (HOL), '83 Heresys (HWO).

#12 bracurrie

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:06 PM

I found a tape measure works great.
Well duh on me. :huh: I was hoping there was a way to confirm the manual method. I am using different amplifiers and was thinking there may be some signal path time differences.

Brad Currie 615.460.7777


#13 mark1101

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 02:57 PM

What is the manual method.............for determining delays? :D


KPT-MCM-4 Grand + 2 KPT-684 subs, '73 Cornwalls (C DB 15), ' Single '77 LaScala (LS BR), '81 Heresys (HOL), '83 Heresys (HWO).

#14 Islander

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 06:01 PM

I found a tape measure works great.
Well duh on me. :huh: I was hoping there was a way to confirm the manual method. I am using different amplifiers and was thinking there may be some signal path time differences.

If you're using an AVR as a pre-amp or control centre, if it has auto setup of some sort, it could detect and adjust the delay between the various speakers. Hope that's not too obvious nor too many ifs.

That said, I also use a tape measure. I measure from the driver outlet (not the horn mouth) to the listening position.


Edited by Islander, 30 January 2014 - 06:03 PM.

Pat on the Island

 

510 JubScala IIs + Paradigm PW-2100 V.2, powered by Yamaha MX-D1 x 2, EQ'd by Electro-Voice Dx38, controlled by Yamaha RX-V750, fed by Technics SL-1210M5G & Yamaha DVD-S550

 

6.1 Surround: above plus Belle (centre front), La Scalas (left and right surround), Heresy III (centre rear)


#15 bracurrie

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Posted 30 January 2014 - 08:24 PM

Pitch perfect. Thanks

Brad Currie 615.460.7777


#16 mark1101

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 10:07 AM

I only time delay the speaker system, and I don't do anything concerning the listening position. No Audessey or any auto-software in use. Those are considering reflected sound which I am trying to avoid considering actually.

To determine the FR of the setup (and any necessary baseline EQ) I use a mic. 3ft. from each horn with all else muted, and RTA software.

I see a lot of people using auto room calibration and I think that's a cool HT feature.


KPT-MCM-4 Grand + 2 KPT-684 subs, '73 Cornwalls (C DB 15), ' Single '77 LaScala (LS BR), '81 Heresys (HOL), '83 Heresys (HWO).

#17 bracurrie

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 12:08 PM

I only time delay the speaker system, and I don't do anything concerning the listening position. No Audessey or any auto-software in use. Those are considering reflected sound which I am trying to avoid considering actually.

To determine the FR of the setup (and any necessary baseline EQ) I use a mic. 3ft. from each horn with all else muted, and RTA software.

I see a lot of people using auto room calibration and I think that's a cool HT feature.

do you then use white noise and how fine do you look at the data?

Brad Currie 615.460.7777


#18 mark1101

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:20 PM

I use pink noise and TrueRTA at 1/24th octave resolution. I usually set the averages to 300. For live EQ I set to 3.


KPT-MCM-4 Grand + 2 KPT-684 subs, '73 Cornwalls (C DB 15), ' Single '77 LaScala (LS BR), '81 Heresys (HOL), '83 Heresys (HWO).