Jump to content
The Klipsch Audio Community
Sign in to follow this  
ClaudeJ1

Quarter Pie Bass Horn: Measured FR, How2Build, and Hornresp

Recommended Posts

Been thinking about subs and then remembered how Troels Gravesen discribed the DTQWT'S that I'd already built and love..... he said they were a 2 way speaker with inbuilt sub woofer, this being the 2x horn loaded driver's.

No need to build sub, already got them!

Put them next the the QP horns tonight and used the minidsp with amp to drive them under 50hz. WOW! That's what's been missing.....

 

Just ordered some caps for the Hi pass on the QP then I'll play and tweak the sub amp. Done!!!!

 

Thanks for your help along this sometimes painful journey.

bc0a3c9f7976bb9b10f214d577b7e06b.jpg

 

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, nzlowie said:

No need to build sub, already got them!

Put them next the the QP horns tonight and used the minidsp with amp to drive them under 50hz. WOW! That's what's been missing.....

 

Just ordered some caps for the Hi pass on the QP then I'll play and tweak the sub amp. Done!!!!

 

Thanks for your help along this sometimes painful journey.

You're welcome, but the optimist in me would like to hear about your pleasant OUTCOME from the journey, eh? Synergy is defined by this simple phrase: "The whole is greater than the sum of it's parts." Since you have good quality parts, let's hope that your ears agree with this. Let us know!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Quick question, have ordered bipolar electrolitic caps to try as they're cheap and readily available.... To get better caps at an affordable price are the large motor run film caps a suitable option? Just thinking that as the QP covers some of the critical vocal range I don't want to insert anything that may degrade what we already have.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, nzlowie said:

Quick question, have ordered bipolar electrolitic caps to try as they're cheap and readily available.... To get better caps at an affordable price are the large motor run film caps a suitable option? Just thinking that as the QP covers some of the critical vocal range I don't want to insert anything that may degrade what we already have.

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk
 

12 hours ago, nzlowie said:

Been thinking about subs and then remembered how Troels Gravesen discribed the DTQWT'S that I'd already built and love..... he said they were a 2 way speaker with inbuilt sub woofer, this being the 2x horn loaded driver's.

No need to build sub, already got them!

Put them next the the QP horns tonight and used the minidsp with amp to drive them under 50hz. WOW! That's what's been missing.....

 

Just ordered some caps for the Hi pass on the QP then I'll play and tweak the sub amp. Done!!!!

 

Thanks for your help along this sometimes painful journey.

bc0a3c9f7976bb9b10f214d577b7e06b.jpg

 

Sent from my SM-T800 using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

https://www.parts-express.com/cat/metalized-polypropylene-crossover-capacitors/294?N=22074+4294967118+4294967060+4294962365&Ne=10166&Nrpp=99999&Nrs=collection()%2Frecord[endeca%3Amatches(.%2C"P_PortalID"%2C"1")+and+endeca%3Amatches(.%2C"P_Searchable"%2C"1")]&PortalID=1

 

You will need 10 to 14 total of these capacitors to keep it clean. To make 500, 500, or 700 micro Farads. Not cheap but good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I now have the JBL 2360A (EV DH1A drivers) running the mids on the left and right channels. I will try to post REW measurements later this week. By ear they seem to integrate very nicely with the QP horns, I am crossing over at 400 HZ.

Front end of the HT. I often practice down there as well so ignore the trombone mess.

Also, the power center for it all.

image1 (1).jpg

image1 (2).jpg

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

So are you experiencing more midrange detail?

 

 

Yes, more detail but also a much more immersive soundstage, esp. on 2 channel stuff.

The soundstage is HUGE. :P

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/15/2017 at 4:48 PM, tromprof said:

 

Yes, more detail but also a much more immersive soundstage, esp. on 2 channel stuff.

The soundstage is HUGE. :P

 

 

Yep, agreed. It's VERY similar to a K-402 that way. Don Keele got an academy award for that horn, presented by a young Charlize Theron! This should clue you in to life with Klipsch's best horn in the future. Meanwhile enjoy your "King of the Quarter Pies" HT setup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/11/2016 at 7:09 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Working on a symmetrical adaptation of the Quarter Pie I will call the "L-horn" (not to be confused with "the" in Spanish). It will be more difficult to build but should have more even distribution of the higher frequencies when coupled with a Klipsch K-402 with a TAD 4002 driver mechanically mounted and acoustically balanced. Like all good horn setups it will be active with PEQ, Time Delays, and ROOM based FIR filtering.

 

Stay tuned.

 

My first post on this forum. I read through this entire thread over last couple of days. The HornResp calculations for this horn are nice, pretty similar to a straight horn I have been working up for the JBL 2242 driver. 

 

Did you ever complete the L-horn concept?

 

A straight horn coupled to a modified Quarter Pie could be a great solution for my upcoming HT build. I could use the ported JBL 2242H's (25 Hz tune, 8 cu ft) in my Left and Right speakers for two of the four subs. The Eminence driver at $110 is such a good performer I think it's value is nearly impossible to beat.

 

Thanks for sharing this design!

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, NWCgrad said:

 

My first post on this forum. I read through this entire thread over last couple of days. The HornResp calculations for this horn are nice, pretty similar to a straight horn I have been working up for the JBL 2242 driver. 

 

Did you ever complete the L-horn concept?

 

A straight horn coupled to a modified Quarter Pie could be a great solution for my upcoming HT build. I could use the ported JBL 2242H's (25 Hz tune, 8 cu ft) in my Left and Right speakers for two of the four subs. The Eminence driver at $110 is such a good performer I think it's value is nearly impossible to beat.

 

Thanks for sharing this design!

 

Steve

You're welcome. It trounces a LaScala cabinet with only a little more floor space. The 'L" version is still a sketch, which I plan to build next year. This along with a wood version of a K-402 horn with TAD Beryllium Drivers. I have too many project speakers with too little time.......now moving into an old house with smaller rooms, which is a project in itself!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been busy designing an HT space in a house we will be moving into this fall.  I plan to have all the front speakers behind a front screen wall (acoustically transparent screen flanked by grill cloth).  The depth behind the screen will be 36" MAX.  I looked at the baby quarter pie from earlier in the thread and is also a bit to deep.

 

I have been playing around with the original and baby design and came up with a couple of options. 

 

I will try to get them into Hornresp soon to see how they measure.

Quarter Pie Variations.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good idea. All of them are workable option. It's just deciding how high of a cutoff you want above 50 Hz. The original QP gets to about 50 Hz. so making it shorter works up to about 80 Hz. where subwoofers can take over without making their location known.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As long as I can get solid response to 70-80 Hz I can mate them with my 4 subs (2 JBL 2242 and 2 Eminence Lab 12, all 4 ported and tuned to 22 Hz). May build some horn subs to be all horn for OCT and subs.  Surrounds are DIY Eminence 10" coaxial speakers that I am thinking of putting in the wall.

 

New theater will be 7.4.2 arrangement. Atmos isn't really an option in my current theater. I am pre-wiring the new house for perfect location for my seat.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
47 minutes ago, NWCgrad said:

As long as I can get solid response to 70-80 Hz I can mate them with my 4 subs (2 JBL 2242 and 2 Eminence Lab 12, all 4 ported and tuned to 22 Hz). May build some horn subs to be all horn for OCT and subs.  Surrounds are DIY Eminence 10" coaxial speakers that I am thinking of putting in the wall.

 

New theater will be 7.4.2 arrangement. Atmos isn't really an option in my current theater. I am pre-wiring the new house for perfect location for my seat.

You need a total effective horn length of 42" to get 80 Hz. so I would keep the big radius and cut out the corner to get it as shallow as possible without killing the required horn length.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I vote for the one in the lower left. Which should get you to 65 Hz.  If you look to the Max. Cone Excursion Point in Hornresp, it would behoove you to cross 60 Hz. and above to subwoofers to keep the IM distortion down at high volumes. I did this myself, even with the full size Quarter Pies.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I vote for the one in the lower left. Which should get you to 65 Hz.  If you look to the Max. Cone Excursion Point in Hornresp, it would behoove you to cross 60 Hz. and above to subwoofers to keep the IM distortion down at high volumes. I did this myself, even with the full size Quarter Pies.

 

The lower left one seems best to me also. My midhorn (JBL 2012H driver) is good down to 200-250 Hz.

 

I am playing around with some form factors. Will post what I come up with.

 

By reaching down below 70 Hz I can add tapped horns to my system for all horn from 20Hz to 20kHz.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, NWCgrad said:

The lower left one seems best to me also. My midhorn (JBL 2012H driver) is good down to 200-250 Hz.

 

I am playing around with some form factors. Will post what I come up with.

 

By reaching down below 70 Hz I can add tapped horns to my system for all horn from 20Hz to 20kHz.

I built a "coffee table" tapped horn of 30x60x14.5 inches, using a single LAB 12 driver,  that went down into the teens and ruler flat from 20-60 hz. It's in the subwoofer section. Easy to build. Did a few with my son-in-law for his HT behind screen. He's a happy camper, but conversely, his 7.4.4 Atmos has all direct radiators and 4 Tapped HORNS. No upgrades required in the sub department for sure.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am currently building my dream artist's studio and have decided to kill two birds with one stone. It'll also serve as my dedicated two channel listening room. Dimensions are 16' x 26' x 10' on heated concrete slab. I've cut no corners on this build, as it'll likely be my last. Now my current system is comprised of a pair of Lascala with bass reflex mod and AA crossovers (caps have be replaced with Sonicaps), a Scott 299b and Denon PMA-890DG, plus Lenco L70 with Shure M7N21D Cart and streaming music from iMAC through Schiit Modi DAC. My current studio and listening room is approximately 12' x 24' x 10', good, not great dimensions. Even so, I've achieved pretty decent sound with a little room treatment, panels on 1st reflection points. The Lascala are placed in the corners, as I've come to understand PWK intended for all speakers in his eight cardinal points of reproduction. 

 

I had read through this lengthy thread back when I built my bass reflex bins and was torn whether or not I would go for the bins or the Q-Pie. The size of my room dictated my decision and I must say that I am thoroughly pleased by the added bass of the bins. 

 

Now that I am relocating into a larger area and am currently elbow high in sawdust, I figure I might try the Q-Pie instead. I love the idea of a fully horn loaded bass design and now have the room for it. My question for Claude is, how close to the KHorn is a Lascala with Q-Pie? I haven't reread the entire thread, so is there a new or modified design I should be looking at? Do I need to modify the crossover at all if I use my current woofers? I won't be building a sub any time soon, the bass as is with the bin is sufficient for my listening needs.

 

Are there any other Q-Pie builders that would like to chime in on their experience with this build and it's performance?

 

Thanks all!

Daniel

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...