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active crossovers


Skelt

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I have a couple of the Ashly Protea units and I recommend the 4.8SP.  The reason is because anyone running a 3-way system with subs will not have enough outputs with a 6 output unit.  You need 8 outputs to do the subs.  Actually my system is 5-way so I needed 2 processors with the same throughput timing to solve that I/O issue.

 

I have also setup a competitive system that is pure analog with expensive ALK networks and audiophile components and run it routinely against these digital systems.  You can here that there MAY be a tiny bit more detail in the pure analog system, but there is way more clarity in the digital system because of the advantages of time delay, and EQ in the digital domain.  It's clearer and more focused and over the length of an afternoon is far more enjoyable to listen to.  I think the digital units MAY sacrifice a TINY amount of detail at times in some complicated passages, but I always prefer listening to the clearer system.  In fact I'd go as far as saying it's remarkable how good my MCM setup is.

 

I have had excellent luck with these Ashly processors.  They have been bulletproof.

If I was to go this route. I have 3 channels bi-amped, plus 2 subs...would this work, or would I need one more input?

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If I was starting fresh, I'd look at the newest processors such as what Chris is mentioning.  Mine are few years old and were some of the nicest when I got them.  However, I am very happy with Ashly.

 

As digital goes...........look at the newest.  I really like the Xilica XP-4080.  I'd look at the Yamaha 2060 too.  That looks nearly equally as good as the Xilica for home use.

 

But yeah..........it sounds like you need 8 outputs. 

 

Trust me, if you get one of these things, and get into it, and eventually find out "this active crossover stuff is for me"...........you are going to need more I/O.  You'll see.  :)

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If I was starting fresh, I'd look at the newest processors such as what Chris is mentioning.  Mine are few years old and were some of the nicest when I got them.  However, I am very happy with Ashly.

 

As digital goes...........look at the newest.  I really like the Xilica XP-4080.  I'd look at the Yamaha 2060 too.  That looks nearly equally as good as the Xilica for home use.

 

But yeah..........it sounds like you need 8 outputs. 

 

Trust me, if you get one of these things, and get into it, and eventually find out "this active crossover stuff is for me"...........you are going to need more I/O.  You'll see.  :)

I only have 3 channels to biamp, plus the subs. I can live with the subs using the miniDSP as they are not efficient enough to cause any hiss.

 

If I already know what shelf, delay, and crossover I need. Is it a quick change over to one of these digital ones...ie. just punch in the ones I have, or is it a start from almost scratch again?

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I only have 3 channels to biamp, plus the subs. I can live with the subs using the miniDSP as they are not efficient enough to cause any hiss.

 

Yes, IMO.

 

 

 

f I already know what shelf, delay, and crossover I need. Is it a quick change over to one of these digital ones...ie. just punch in the ones I have, or is it a start from almost scratch again?

 

When I changed from the Dx38 to the Yamaha SP2060, I punched in the settings.  I plugged in REW and took a sweep - perfect first time.

 

I assume that experience is a common one.

Edited by Chris A
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Just located a Xilica XP-4080 for $850 brand new with full warranty. Notified MiniDSP that I want to return their units as defective since I am getting hiss (their response to my problem, prior to asking for a refund was... wire it as unbalanced).

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The unit that Dennis keeps harping on is a full crossover (without all the parts shown in the picture).  There are issues:

 

1)  It isn't integrated into a form that it can be used as-is: no plug-and-play.  You've got to take the initiative (and associated costs) to do it.

2) The software needed to program it isn't mentioned.  The hardware as shown has no display to key in the parameters.  How are you going to get the software?

3) ...and most importantly: this unit is discontinued by Xilica.  If you don't believe me, simply go to Xilica's website and find information on it.

 

If you're willing to risk your $250 to make everything work and integrate it into something that will protect it and allow you to use it for a long time, then "go for it".

 

Chris

Edited by Chris A
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Don't do it !!!!   One of the dangers of the active crossover solution is getting something cheap.  Ask me how I know.  :)

 

If you already have a sweet sounding system with upgraded passive crossovers and other upgrades...............that is going to be VERY hard to beat by changing things to an active system.  I don't think a lot of people realize that.

 

 Just because you have the new ability to time align doesn't mean it will sound better.  It sure won't sound as detailed.  Those PC based crossovers are not what you want, and are not going to beat a nice pair of ALK audiophile crossovers and a clean amp (non-time aligned).

 

A nicely built passive speaker setup is hard to beat with an active system unless it's a pretty darn NICE active system.

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I actually believe that it probably will sound just as detailed as a passive crossover.  It will also beat passive crossovers in many ways. 

 

But the issue is that the crossover model mentioned above (Xilica XM2040)--a full crossover--has implementation price that you don't see in the selling price.  You've got to do something to it to use it, and it's a orphan as far as the company that produced it is concerned.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris A
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Sorry......I see it is a "guts" unit........but the real unit.  Thought it might have been one of those PC based "mini" setups.  Heard one of those recently and thought it was pretty much a test setup or development tool.  Noisy.

 

Once reason I say passives are hard to beat is because I guess I have one heck of an analog setup.  :)   The bar is set high at my house. :D   As I've said I still think the active setup sounds better, but I still have a lot of respect for the old way.

 

A K402 on top of DBBs (double cornwall bass bins) is almost time aligned as is (you'd have to see it).  Pus I have the BMS 4592 coaxials to run the 402 in 3-way with the coaxials being perfectly time aligned on the 402 due to design.  ALK ESNs with all Auricaps.  McIntosh power at 210 w/ch.

 

Honestly, I could get rid of the setup in my avatar and I'd be left with a great setup.

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Sorry......I see it is a "guts" unit........but the real unit.  Thought it might have been one of those PC based "mini" setups.  Heard one of those recently and thought it was pretty much a test setup or development tool.  Noisy.

 

Once reason I say passives are hard to beat is because I guess I have one heck of an analog setup.  :)   The bar is set high at my house. :D   As I've said I still think the active setup sounds better, but I still have a lot of respect for the old way.

 

A K402 on top of DBBs (double cornwall bass bins) is almost time aligned as is (you'd have to see it).  Pus I have the BMS 4592 coaxials to run the 402 in 3-way with the coaxials being perfectly time aligned on the 402 due to design.  ALK ESNs with all Auricaps.  McIntosh power at 210 w/ch.

 

Honestly, I could get rid of the setup in my avatar and I'd be left with a great setup.

MCMs yes?

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I believe all of the above, Mark - if you don't need time alignment and your controlled directivity horns and your bass bins are pretty flat as-is (in terms of frequency and phase response), then you probably won't hear much of a difference using a high quality digital crossover, except perhaps for really high output applications where the passive crossover points and gains might drift due to heating of voice coils and other passive components.

 

Chris

Edited by Chris A
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The board requires a PC to control it through the 232 port, ±12V at 500mA.

 

Otherwise the core is the same as the full-up version.

 

Most people will choose to spend the money on the full-up model?

 

This unit is for those that are willing to make it work, and like saving the money. There are two more available at DIY Audio for $200 each.

 

Ton Danley uses (and recommends) the Xilica product.

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Just got my new Xilica XP-4080! It looks like a well made product, and has an Android app that you can use for tuning along with a Windows app or the front panel. I found out not only does Danley use them , but Aeris also uses them along with some recording studios. 

 

Thanks for the suggestion to try them out. Hopefully I will get the cables made up this weekend to get this bad boy running.

Edited by ellisr63
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Doc, do you have any experience with the Ashlys?

Only for live sound, never at home.

I really like their idea about variable knee shapes for xovers, but it makes it hard to copy settings across different devices.

Btw, you are talking about the Protea stuff, right?

I'd love to get my hands on a service manual someday.

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