mustang guy Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) I have a home theater system and also a tube stereo system. Both systems are sharing the same front left and right speakers, and I want to build a switch box to easily switch from one to another. Frankly, I am tired of manually doing this.T.H.E. . . B.O.Xfront: Rotary A/B switch back:Inputs:Tube preamp right channel RCA/coax Tube preamp left channel RCA/coax SS preamp right channel XLR SS preamp left channel XLR Phono right channel RCA/coax Phono left channel RCA/coax 120V Power 12V Power Outputs:SS amp output right XLR SS amp outputs left XLR Tube amp outputs right RCA/coax Tube amp outputs left RCA/coax Phono right RCA/coax Phono left RCA/coax SS 120V (5A) out 12V trigger to relay out Tube 120V (5A) out External power supply: 120V in 12V trigger in for relay SS 120V (5A) out Tube 120V (5A) out activity:SWITCH A position - Tubes Power off the SS preamp 120V using relay (the amp will be switched off using the 12v signal) Power on the tube pre and amps 120V using relay. Switch phono RCA outputs to tube Switch amp RCA outputs to tube SWITCH B position - SS (Home theater) Power off the tube pre and amps 120V using relay Power on the SS preamp 120V using relay. (the amp will be switched on using the 12v signal) Switch phono RCA outputs to SS Switch amp XLR outputs to SS I am having difficulty discerning what rotary A/B switch I can use to make all these things happen at once. It needs to be a 2 position (A/B) type switch, and switch the 120V relay, the phono section, the tube preamp-amp section, and the SS (XLR) preamp-amp section.Thanks,Craig Edited February 13, 2014 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 Craig, Don't you just need a speaker A/B switch for the front speakers? Power up the equipment you want to use at the time, flick the speaker switch to the correct position and voila. I guess to be safe of transients you should switch the speaker switch first. When your using your SS equipment I don't think you want it going into the tube amp's output transformer in parallel with the speakers. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) rotary or toggle... schubeingapaininthearse . that seems like a lot of functions to happen with a flip of a switch... unless you are planning on building a box that has several switches on it. Edited February 13, 2014 by Schu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) Craig, Don't you just need a speaker A/B switch for the front speakers? Power up the equipment you want to use at the time, flick the speaker switch to the correct position and voila. I guess to be safe of transients you should switch the speaker switch first. When your using your SS equipment I don't think you want it going into the tube amp's output transformer in parallel with the speakers. Eric Read the post carefully. There is a lot going on. One other thing, the appropriate switch would not be a speaker A/B switch, it would be a source A/B switch. Totally different animal. My intent is to interrupt the low voltage signal between the preamp and the amp and at the same time switch the phono section to the appropriate party. To protect things, I intend on powering on the appropriate device and powering down the one not in use. Edited February 13, 2014 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 I have a home theater system and also a tube stereo system. Both systems are sharing the same front left and right speakers, and I want to build a switch box to easily switch from one to another. Frankly, I am tired of manually doing this.T.H.E. . . B.O.X front: Rotary A/B switch back: Inputs: Tube preamp right channel RCA/coax Tube preamp left channel RCA/coax SS preamp right channel XLR SS preamp left channel XLR Phono right channel RCA/coax Phono left channel RCA/coax 120V Power Outputs:SS amp output right XLR SS amp outputs left XLR Tube amp outputs right RCA/coax Tube amp outputs left RCA/coax Phono right RCA/coax Phono left RCA/coax SS 120V (5A) out Tube 120V (5A) out activity:SWITCH A position - Tubes Power off the SS preamp 120V using relay (the amp will be switched off using the 12v signal) Power on the tube pre and amps 120V using relay. Switch phono RCA outputs to tube Switch amp RCA outputs to tube SWITCH B position - SS (Home theater) Power off the tube pre and amps 120V using relay Power on the SS preamp 120V using relay. (the amp will be switched on using the 12v signal) Switch phono RCA outputs to SS Switch amp XLR outputs to SS I am having difficulty discerning what rotary A/B switch I can use to make all these things happen at once. It needs to be a 2 position (A/B) type switch, and switch the 120V relay, the phono section, the tube preamp-amp section, and the SS (XLR) preamp-amp section.Thanks, Craig " and switch the 120V relay, the phono section, the tube preamp-amp section" I was designing this in my head till I got to this part, now son your scare the heII out of me. a/c near any pre input send shivers up me spine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 rotary or toggle... schubeingapaininthearse . that seems like a lot of functions to happen with a flip of a switch... unless you are planning on building a box that has several switches on it. I don't think there is a linear switch that can do this, so we're talking rotary. Look inside about any vintage receiver or tuner and you will see switches which perform many functions. Here is an example of such a switch: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) ...T.H.E. . . B.O.X ... " and switch the 120V relay, the phono section, the tube preamp-amp section" I was designing this in my head till I got to this part, now son your scare the heII out of me. a/c near any pre input send shivers up me spine! Good thinking. The relay should be in a separate box! I can use low power inside the unit just for the relay voltage. 9V should do nicely. Maybe I can make a couple nice jewel lights to indicate source while I'm at it. Edited February 13, 2014 by mustang guy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 rotary or toggle... schubeingapaininthearse . that seems like a lot of functions to happen with a flip of a switch... unless you are planning on building a box that has several switches on it. I don't think there is a linear switch that can do this, so we're talking rotary. Look inside about any vintage receiver or tuner and you will see switches which perform many functions. Here is an example of such a switch: oh wow... that is badarse. I had no idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 rotary or toggle... schubeingapaininthearse . that seems like a lot of functions to happen with a flip of a switch... unless you are planning on building a box that has several switches on it. I don't think there is a linear switch that can do this, so we're talking rotary. Look inside about any vintage receiver or tuner and you will see switches which perform many functions. Here is an example of such a switch: I think iv still got a few of those lying around somewhere, blew a lot of chit up with those critters as a youngin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 forgetting about the phono for the time being...... So..... you want to be able to use your tube pre with either tube or SS amp and vice versa? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 13, 2014 Author Share Posted February 13, 2014 (edited) forgetting about the phono for the time being...... So..... you want to be able to use your tube pre with either tube or SS amp and vice versa? no tube pre to tube amp <or> ss pre to ss amp I have thought this through, and carefully laid out what I want to do in the above message. Read it carefully. It took some time to write. SWITCH A position - Tubes Power off the SS preamp 120V using relay (the amp will be switched off using the 12v signal) Power on the tube pre and amps 120V using relay. Switch phono RCA outputs to tube Switch amp RCA outputs to tube SWITCH B position - SS (Home theater) Power off the tube pre and amps 120V using relay Power on the SS preamp 120V using relay. (the amp will be switched on using the 12v signal) Switch phono RCA outputs to SS Switch amp XLR outputs to SS Edited February 13, 2014 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babadono Posted February 13, 2014 Share Posted February 13, 2014 forgetting about the phono for the time being...... So..... you want to be able to use your tube pre with either tube or SS amp and vice versa? no tube pre to tube amp <or> ss pre to ss amp I have thought this through, and carefully laid out what I want to do in the above message. Read it carefully. It took some time to write. SWITCH A position - Tubes Power off the SS preamp 120V using relay (the amp will be switched off using the 12v signal)one pole of switch will control a double throw relay that switches 120VAC power to either the tube equip. or SS pre Power on the tube pre and amps 120V using relay.#1 does this Switch phono RCA outputs to tubetwo poles(one for left, one for right) will switch the phono output to either the phono input of tube gear or SS gear Switch amp RCA outputs to tubeneed clarification here-aren't the tube pre outputs ALWAYS hooked up to the tube amp inputs? SWITCH B position - SS (Home theater) Power off the tube pre and amps 120V using relay#1 above Power on the SS preamp 120V using relay. (the amp will be switched on using the 12v signal)#1 again Switch phono RCA outputs to SS#3 above Switch amp XLR outputs to SSjust like #4 above aren't the SS pre outs always hooked up to the SS amp in? Craig, I am trying to help. When you say phono you are talking about a turntable that you want to be able to switch between the two different preamp inputs correct? And really i don't think it is prudent to leave two amplifiers hooked up to a pair of speakers even if one of them is off especially a tube amp that has a low impedance output transformer. I am certainly no expert on tube amps perhaps someone else will chime in about this part of your setup desires. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Craig, I am trying to help. When you say phono you are talking about a turntable that you want to be able to switch between the two different preamp inputs correct? And really i don't think it is prudent to leave two amplifiers hooked up to a pair of speakers even if one of them is off especially a tube amp that has a low impedance output transformer. I am certainly no expert on tube amps perhaps someone else will chime in about this part of your setup desires. Thank you Eric. I knew you were trying to help, but the questions you asked made it seem like you didn't read my original post. I can see now that you were on a different and better track. My answers are in bold green. SWITCH A position - Tubes Power off the SS preamp 120V using relay (the amp will be switched off using the 12v signal)one pole of switch will control a double throw relay that switches 120VAC power to either the tube equip. or SS pre I am considering adding an OFF position on the switch, which would require 2 relays. Power on the tube pre and amps 120V using relay.#1 does this I was aware of this. I was including it as a step to keep my mind arranged. Switch phono RCA outputs to tubetwo poles(one for left, one for right) will switch the phono output to either the phono input of tube gear or SS gear Correct. I am not sure if I should call this 2 poles or 4. The reason? I don't know if it is better to use a chassis ground or a direct circuit to the output. Switch amp RCA outputs to tubeneed clarification here-aren't the tube pre outputs ALWAYS hooked up to the tube amp inputs? I had in my mind that it needed to be switched. Come to think of it, the preamp's and amps could remain connected if we did like you are saying in 3. Originally I was going to have the internal circuit of the phono output link to the appropriate box output (SS or tube amp input). With your commect on phono, I am realizing that the device could be much simplified. I think you are on to something that will simplify this. Why not leave the preamps and amps connected all the time? As far as disconnecting one of the amps, that could be a double pole relay between the amp and speaker. The new configuration of the switch would be as follows: MAIN SWITCHBOX front: Rotary A/B/C switch labelled Tubes/OFF/Home Theater Power indicator back: Main switchbox Inputs: Phono right channel RCA/coax Phono left channel RCA/coax 12V Power Main box Outputs: Phono right RCA/coax Phono left RCA/coax Tube 12V out SS 12V out EXTERNAL POWER STATION BOX front: Power indicator back: Inputs: 120V AC fuse 12V trigger input for tube (A) 12V trigger input for SS ( External power station Outputs: SS 120V (5A) out Tube 120V (5A) out Inside: 12v relay for tube 120V 12v relay for SS 120V 12V light for power indicator activity: SWITCH A position - Tubes Send 12V signal to "Main box Output" #3. This turns on power to the Tube preamp and amp. Switch phono RCA outputs to tube send a 12v signal to a relay to connect the tube amp to the speakers. Do they make these in 4 pole? SWITCH B position - SS (Home theater) Send 12V signal to "Main box Output" #4. This turns on power to the SS preamp. Switch phono RCA outputs to SS send a 12v signal to a relay to connect the SS amp to the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 I use this:http://www.nilesaudio.com/product.php?prodID=SPK-1&recordID=Automated%20Switching%20Systems&categoryID=Switching%20Systems&prdcdID=FG00240 and use this to control it via iPad over my home network:http://www.globalcache.com/products/itach/ip2ccspecs/ The Globalcache closes the contacts which provides 12VDC from an old Wii power supply to the Niles to switch speakers from the HT L/R front to the stereo L/R and runs a PC case fan to give a gentle air flow across my NOSValves amp's tubes. The photo attached was during my prototype build but gives you the idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 The above setup controls between these: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 (edited) You've got me thinking... That Niles SPK-1 is the best device to use for [Activity/Switch x position/#3] in the new layout above. A Niles AC-3 would work for powering on the tube gear, and I would have it off by default. I don't worry at all about the SS stuff staying on. Now all I need is a box with a single deck switch with 3 poles and 3 positions. 2 poles for the +L and +R or the phono, and 1 pole for the 12v switch. The 3 positions would be tube/off/ss. The output of the switchbox would need only 1 12v trigger for the SPK-1 and the AC-3 when in tube position. That simplifies things a great deal. I don't really care to be able to remote control the switching, so the global cache device would not be necessary. Edited February 14, 2014 by mustang guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Instead of using a wafer switch (the contacts may not be able to handle the AC line voltage unless you get a really expensive switch) use 4 pole DC relays powered by a wall wart activated by whatever type switch you want, or by a remote control, or both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 You've got me thinking... That Niles SPK-1 is the best device to use for [Activity/Switch x position/#3] in the new layout above. A Niles AC-3 would work for powering on the tube gear, and I would have it off by default. I don't worry at all about the SS stuff staying on. Now all I need is a single deck switch box with 3 poles and 3 positions. 2 poles for the +L and +R or the phono, and 1 pole for the 12v switch. The 3 positions would be tube/off/ss. The output of the switchbox would need only 1 12v trigger for the Tubes only. That simplifies things a great deal. I don't really care to be able to remote control the switching, so the global cache device would not be necessary. That's sorta what I do. The AC-3 powers the stereo and the SPK-1 switches the amps to the speakers (speaker leads in the middle terminals and amp outputs to the outer terminals0. A simple 12vdc input to both Niles units would swap speakers and power up the 2 channel. BTW, I have spares of both if you get around to wanting to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 Instead of using a wafer switch (the contacts may not be able to handle the AC line voltage unless you get a really expensive switch) use 4 pole DC relays powered by a wall wart activated by whatever type switch you want, or by a remote control, or both. I am using line level and 12VDC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted February 14, 2014 Author Share Posted February 14, 2014 You've got me thinking... That Niles SPK-1 is the best device to use for [Activity/Switch x position/#3] in the new layout above. A Niles AC-3 would work for powering on the tube gear, and I would have it off by default. I don't worry at all about the SS stuff staying on. Now all I need is a single deck switch box with 3 poles and 3 positions. 2 poles for the +L and +R or the phono, and 1 pole for the 12v switch. The 3 positions would be tube/off/ss. The output of the switchbox would need only 1 12v trigger for the Tubes only. That simplifies things a great deal. I don't really care to be able to remote control the switching, so the global cache device would not be necessary. That's sorta what I do. The AC-3 powers the stereo and the SPK-1 switches the amps to the speakers (speaker leads in the middle terminals and amp outputs to the outer terminals0. A simple 12vdc input to both Niles units would swap speakers and power up the 2 channel. BTW, I have spares of both if you get around to wanting to try. You have a PM for the SPK-1. I already own an AC-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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