javelin Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 Hello all. So I recently bought the RC-64 and have come to a point where I need to make another configuration decision while re-architecting my center channel space; eg, hole still open for upgrade. So, the RC-64 has a 99dB sensitivity which provides 117dB@64watt or 120dB@128watt. My receiver has 110watt/channel(7ch) enough to power the center speaker to put out 117-120dB range. My receiver is capable of bi-wiring the front speakers, using front and rear-surrounds, but it does not say about the center. Since I'm using a dedicated 50watt amp for my front La Scalas, can I still use the freed front left and right channels to power/bi-wire my center? Thoughts and suggestion is much appreciated. Thanks! jav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted February 14, 2014 Moderators Share Posted February 14, 2014 No benefit to biwiring your center Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelin Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 No benefit to biwiring your center Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve sells Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) bi wire is not the same as bi amp... Just making an observation, in case you misused the term. Bi wire has little or nothing to do with the receiver Edited February 18, 2014 by steve sells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 No benefit to biwiring your center Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... In a way, they did. Some people think bi-wiring makes a difference, so Klipsch did not want those buyers to dismiss their speakers because they didn't have the option to bi-wire. It's just an added feature to improve saleability. One properly-sized speaker cable will sound just as good as two, and cost less. Since you're using a separate power amp for your front left and right channels, I assume you're taking the signal from your receiver's front left and right Pre outs. That doesn't mean the matching speaker terminals on the receiver are still powered. They might or might not be. It appears that you may be mixing up bi-wiring and "fool's bi-amping", which is using different channels of an AVR to mimic using separate external power amp channels. That does not make any improvement in the sound. It just costs more for the extra cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelin Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 bi wire is not the same as bi amp... Just making an observation, in case you misused the term. Bi wire has nlittle or nothing to do with the receiver Bi-wiring a speaker, if it's capable, is to provide it seperate power to the hi and lo frequencies from a single amplified source;eg receiver. Bi-amping is providing same function except using two seperate amplified sources; eg, two seperate amplifiers. Wiring the speaker to amp/receiver are slightly different. My understanding is that if you give seperate power to the low and hi frequencies, the speaker can put out more SPL and provide better dynamic ranges. I'm just looking at my options before I put everything back. Don't want to recable again if I can avoid it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 What are you trying to accomplish that you can not with a rc64 and a conventional hook up? The center on a HT set up delivers little musical notes as the fronts handle most all of that in a 3.1+ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelin Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 No benefit to biwiring your center Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... In a way, they did. Some people think bi-wiring makes a difference, so Klipsch did not want those buyers to dismiss their speakers because they didn't have the option to bi-wire. It's just an added feature to improve saleability. One properly-sized speaker cable will sound just as good as two, and cost less. Since you're using a separate power amp for your front left and right channels, I assume you're taking the signal from your receiver's front left and right Pre outs. That doesn't mean the matching speaker terminals on the receiver are still powered. They might or might not be. It appears that you may be mixing up bi-wiring and "fool's bi-amping", which is using different channels of an AVR to mimic using separate external power amp channels. That does not make any improvement in the sound. It just costs more for the extra cables. Yes, I'm using the pre-outs. I was thinking this through and I think I agree with you about the front L/R speaker terminals on the receiver. I'm not going to mess with it. I'm just trying to find out if anyone had any experience doing this and if it's worth the effort. I'm doing a demo on my existing HT to provide space for my RC-64 and don't want to recable again. Attached couple of pics just to show what I'm up to and why all these questions. That empty hole is where I have the RC-3II and I'm resizing it for the RC-64. I was looking for a reason to do bi-wiring and cable it now while I have the opening to do so rather that later. But looks like I won't be running additional cable afterall. I hope to have it completed in the next couple of days. Thanks for the input and suggestions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Youthman is correct, no benefit. Bi-wiring can be done with the wires terminating on the center ch. speaker post on the avr. Bi-amp can also be done but, it is of no benefit. When I used my Carver M 400 amp, I ran the upper post of the RC 64 to one channel and the lower post to the other amp channel.. This was only because in bridge mode the amp could not be calibrated correctly since it was so strong and, I did not like only using one channel of a stereo amp. The 10 lb Carver amp may be the most powerful stereo amp that I have owned, lol. Also, you neve want to hear a center channel at 115-120 db: it will not be enjoyable, he he. Edited February 15, 2014 by derrickdj1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 If you're running speaker cables through your walls, you should be using in-wall rated cables for safety. Here's a link to some good in-wall cables that are reasonably priced: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=KL3 Kable Knukonceptz also carries other types of speaker cables, or Kables, as they call them. I've used their Karma Kables for years and been happy with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system? maybe I should be the first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelin Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 You neve want to hear a center channel at 115-120 db: it will not be enjoyable, he he. That's heresy talk derrickdj. It's why we crave the most powerful amp, avr, and speakers in the world so that we can enjoy blowing our heads off! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelin Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 If you're running speaker cables through your walls, you should be using in-wall rated cables for safety. Here's a link to some good in-wall cables that are reasonably priced: http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=KL3 Kable Knukonceptz also carries other types of speaker cables, or Kables, as they call them. I've used their Karma Kables for years and been happy with them. Yup. I used Monster XP CL3 cables all around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
javelin Posted February 15, 2014 Author Share Posted February 15, 2014 this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system? maybe I should be the first Wait, did I read you right... "three(3) RC-64 for center"? That is sick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiey60 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system? maybe I should be the first not quite rc64ii (I do have 1 as center) but I am toying with the idea of running twin rc62iis as rear surrounds. I have 1 as single rear surround and it is pretty good 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbiey60 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 No benefit to biwiring your centerOk, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... hi. I have an opinion on this but am not entirely sure it is correct. I did ask for verification on another forum but no response, so someone more knowledgeable here please correct or enlighten me. Bi-amping off a receiver does nothing as the receiver has a set power supply. It will double the channels of amplification, but halve the power to both channels, ie 100w×1 normal, 50w×2 biamped. Is this correct? I am not sure about using multiple external amps, I have read you need 'active xovers' for it to be of any benefit, once again I am unsure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etc6849 Posted February 15, 2014 Share Posted February 15, 2014 (edited) Since an AVR shares the same power supply for all channels, even with a bi-amping option inside the AVR you will not gain much if any additional wattage (if you also use the AVR for 5 or 7 channels). Now, if you had separate amps (or a multi-channel amp with dedicated power supplies for each channel), that's different. However, with the cost of the additional amps, I would just buy a bigger amp in the first place for more headroom as it's cheaper. True bi-amping requires filtering prior to amplification and bypassing the speakers cross-overs. This seems overly complicated to me (correcting issues like time delay, etc...), so I haven't tried it. No benefit to biwiring your centerOk, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... hi. I have an opinion on this but am not entirely sure it is correct. I did ask for verification on another forum but no response, so someone more knowledgeable here please correct or enlighten me. Bi-amping off a receiver does nothing as the receiver has a set power supply. It will double the channels of amplification, but halve the power to both channels, ie 100w×1 normal, 50w×2 biamped. Is this correct? I am not sure about using multiple external amps, I have read you need 'active xovers' for it to be of any benefit, once again I am unsure. Edited February 15, 2014 by etc6849 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McMiRA Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 So if I'm reading this right, and following along this bunny trail, the output of one center ran of a single channel at say 200 watts is no different than one center being ran off (2)channels rated at 200 watts each when biamped? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 (edited) When not using an active xo for bi-amping, the HF and LF driver both get 200 watts in the example. the tweeter uses very little power or around 5-10% of what the LF driver uses. All of the additional power to the HF drives is wasted as heat in the passive xo. That is why people run SS for the LF and tubes for the HF drivers when using active bi-amping. Also, using an active xo is not necessarily better that using the passive xo that was designed for the speakers. Edited February 16, 2014 by derrickdj1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system? maybe I should be the first not quite rc64ii (I do have 1 as center) but I am toying with the idea of running twin rc62iis as rear surrounds. I have 1 as single rear surround and it is pretty good NOT, a bad idea... and more cost effective! I want to know who is going to be the first to try it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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