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javelin

Center channel bi-wire

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Hello all.

So I recently bought the RC-64 and have come to a point where I need to make another configuration decision while re-architecting my center channel space; eg, hole still open for upgrade.

So, the RC-64 has a 99dB sensitivity which provides 117dB@64watt or 120dB@128watt.

My receiver has 110watt/channel(7ch) enough to power the center speaker to put out 117-120dB range.

My receiver is capable of bi-wiring the front speakers, using front and rear-surrounds, but it does not say about the center.

Since I'm using a dedicated 50watt amp for my front La Scalas, can I still use the freed front left and right channels to power/bi-wire my center?

Thoughts and suggestion is much appreciated.

Thanks!

jav

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No benefit to biwiring your center

Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... ;)

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bi wire is not the same as bi amp... Just making an observation, in case you misused the term. Bi wire has little or nothing to do with the receiver

Edited by steve sells

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No benefit to biwiring your center

Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... ;)

In a way, they did. Some people think bi-wiring makes a difference, so Klipsch did not want those buyers to dismiss their speakers because they didn't have the option to bi-wire. It's just an added feature to improve saleability.

One properly-sized speaker cable will sound just as good as two, and cost less.

Since you're using a separate power amp for your front left and right channels, I assume you're taking the signal from your receiver's front left and right Pre outs. That doesn't mean the matching speaker terminals on the receiver are still powered. They might or might not be.

It appears that you may be mixing up bi-wiring and "fool's bi-amping", which is using different channels of an AVR to mimic using separate external power amp channels. That does not make any improvement in the sound. It just costs more for the extra cables.

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bi wire is not the same as bi amp... Just making an observation, in case you misused the term. Bi wire has nlittle or nothing to do with the receiver

Bi-wiring a speaker, if it's capable, is to provide it seperate power to the hi and lo frequencies from a single amplified source;eg receiver. Bi-amping is providing same function except using two seperate amplified sources; eg, two seperate amplifiers. Wiring the speaker to amp/receiver are slightly different.

My understanding is that if you give seperate power to the low and hi frequencies, the speaker can put out more SPL and provide better dynamic ranges.

I'm just looking at my options before I put everything back. Don't want to recable again if I can avoid it. :)

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What are you trying to accomplish that you can not with a rc64 and a conventional hook up?

The center on a HT set up delivers little musical notes as the fronts handle most all of that in a 3.1+

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No benefit to biwiring your center

Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... ;)

In a way, they did. Some people think bi-wiring makes a difference, so Klipsch did not want those buyers to dismiss their speakers because they didn't have the option to bi-wire. It's just an added feature to improve saleability.

One properly-sized speaker cable will sound just as good as two, and cost less.

Since you're using a separate power amp for your front left and right channels, I assume you're taking the signal from your receiver's front left and right Pre outs. That doesn't mean the matching speaker terminals on the receiver are still powered. They might or might not be.

It appears that you may be mixing up bi-wiring and "fool's bi-amping", which is using different channels of an AVR to mimic using separate external power amp channels. That does not make any improvement in the sound. It just costs more for the extra cables.

Yes, I'm using the pre-outs. I was thinking this through and I think I agree with you about the front L/R speaker terminals on the receiver. I'm not going to mess with it. I'm just trying to find out if anyone had any experience doing this and if it's worth the effort. I'm doing a demo on my existing HT to provide space for my RC-64 and don't want to recable again.

Attached couple of pics just to show what I'm up to and why all these questions.

post-26004-0-55640000-1392440000_thumb.j

That empty hole is where I have the RC-3II and I'm resizing it for the RC-64. I was looking for a reason to do bi-wiring and cable it now while I have the opening to do so rather that later. But looks like I won't be running additional cable afterall.

post-26004-0-44760000-1392440107_thumb.j

I hope to have it completed in the next couple of days.

Thanks for the input and suggestions.

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Youthman is correct, no benefit. Bi-wiring can be done with the wires terminating on the center ch. speaker post on the avr. Bi-amp can also be done but, it is of no benefit. When I used my Carver M 400 amp, I ran the upper post of the RC 64 to one channel and the lower post to the other amp channel.. This was only because in bridge mode the amp could not be calibrated correctly since it was so strong and, I did not like only using one channel of a stereo amp.

The 10 lb Carver amp may be the most powerful stereo amp that I have owned, lol. Also, you neve want to hear a center channel at 115-120 db: it will not be enjoyable, he he. :P

Edited by derrickdj1

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If you're running speaker cables through your walls, you should be using in-wall rated cables for safety.

Here's a link to some good in-wall cables that are reasonably priced:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=KL3 Kable

Knukonceptz also carries other types of speaker cables, or Kables, as they call them. I've used their Karma Kables for years and been happy with them.

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this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system?

maybe I should be the first :o

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You neve want to hear a center channel at 115-120 db: it will not be enjoyable, he he. :P

That's heresy talk derrickdj. It's why we crave the most powerful amp, avr, and speakers in the world so that we can enjoy blowing our heads off! :lol:

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If you're running speaker cables through your walls, you should be using in-wall rated cables for safety.

Here's a link to some good in-wall cables that are reasonably priced:

http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMaster.cfm?category=KL3 Kable

Knukonceptz also carries other types of speaker cables, or Kables, as they call them. I've used their Karma Kables for years and been happy with them.

Yup. I used Monster XP CL3 cables all around.

post-26004-0-49160000-1392480737_thumb.j

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this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system?

maybe I should be the first :o

Wait, did I read you right... "three(3) RC-64 for center"? That is sick! :P

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this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system?

maybe I should be the first :o

not quite rc64ii (I do have 1 as center) but I am toying with the idea of running twin rc62iis as rear surrounds. I have 1 as single rear surround and it is pretty good
  • Like 1

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No benefit to biwiring your center

Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... ;)
hi. I have an opinion on this but am not entirely sure it is correct. I did ask for verification on another forum but no response, so someone more knowledgeable here please correct or enlighten me. Bi-amping off a receiver does nothing as the receiver has a set power supply. It will double the channels of amplification, but halve the power to both channels, ie 100w×1 normal, 50w×2 biamped. Is this correct? I am not sure about using multiple external amps, I have read you need 'active xovers' for it to be of any benefit, once again I am unsure.

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Since an AVR shares the same power supply for all channels, even with a bi-amping option inside the AVR you will not gain much if any additional wattage (if you also use the AVR for 5 or 7 channels).

Now, if you had separate amps (or a multi-channel amp with dedicated power supplies for each channel), that's different. However, with the cost of the additional amps, I would just buy a bigger amp in the first place for more headroom as it's cheaper. True bi-amping requires filtering prior to amplification and bypassing the speakers cross-overs. This seems overly complicated to me (correcting issues like time delay, etc...), so I haven't tried it.

No benefit to biwiring your center

Ok, thanks for the input. Can you provide a bit more detail or background about your suggestion? I'm sure Klipsch didn't put dual poles for bi-amp or bi-wire just for looks... ;)
hi. I have an opinion on this but am not entirely sure it is correct. I did ask for verification on another forum but no response, so someone more knowledgeable here please correct or enlighten me. Bi-amping off a receiver does nothing as the receiver has a set power supply. It will double the channels of amplification, but halve the power to both channels, ie 100w×1 normal, 50w×2 biamped. Is this correct? I am not sure about using multiple external amps, I have read you need 'active xovers' for it to be of any benefit, once again I am unsure.
Edited by etc6849

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So if I'm reading this right, and following along this bunny trail, the output of one center ran of a single channel at say 200 watts is no different than one center being ran off (2)channels rated at 200 watts each when biamped?

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When not using an active xo for bi-amping, the HF and LF driver both get 200 watts in the example. the tweeter uses very little power or around 5-10% of what the LF driver uses. All of the additional power to the HF drives is wasted as heat in the passive xo. That is why people run SS for the LF and tubes for the HF drivers when using active bi-amping. Also, using an active xo is not necessarily better that using the passive xo that was designed for the speakers.

Edited by derrickdj1
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this has left me wondering... has anyone ever used three RC64's for the center and two rear channels in a 5.1 system?

maybe I should be the first :o

not quite rc64ii (I do have 1 as center) but I am toying with the idea of running twin rc62iis as rear surrounds. I have 1 as single rear surround and it is pretty good

NOT, a bad idea... and more cost effective!

I want to know who is going to be the first to try it

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