MM Cartridge, c. 400.00 or so recommendations wanted!

[Mallette]

About to put my VPI Scout back into use. My belt disappeared while it was stored during the music room move and I ordered a new one. I was about to move my Grado Signature, 90s vintage, back to the Scout when the belt came in, but got to thinking maybe it's time to try something else and keep that one on the Rotel/SME table...which I MAY decide to sell as I am sort of downsizing from multiple systems (the Frazier Elevens may go as well) in advance of retirement and a smaller house.

The price is not fixed, but I don't want to go seriously higher unless there is something very, very compelling.

Also, no MCs. I am aware of the devotees and reasoning there, but I don't want to get into the transformer debates and such as well as the expense.

So, what say ye?

Dave

Edited February 15, 2014 by Mallette

[LarryC]

No specific recommendations, but over the years I've liked the robust but accurate and musical sound of Ortrofons, and many of their MMs are not out of bounds price wise. I've never been fond of the too-neutral, too-cool Shures or (to me) undistinguished Grados. Thebes once had an Ortofon OM-30 (no longer offered?) that I really liked for all kinds of music. Then, there's the need to find a dealer you can commune with, or perhaps a confidence-inspiring conversation with someone at NeedleDoctor.com.

Sorry I don't have a specific rec. I'm MC.

[Mallette]

Thanks, Larry. I am going to take my time and listen to as many as will comment.

Dave

[oldtimer]

Have you done the calculations for your tonearm to know what mass and compliance should be optimal? That will help narrow it down for a start. I like the Audio Technica cartridges because you can upgrade the stylus within lines. That way you can save money on the initial purchase, such as nos discontinued, but still have styli available.

[mustang guy]

I love my Ortofon 2M Blue. It's priced at about half your budget.

[mustang guy]

About to put my VPI Scout back into use. My belt disappeared while it was stored during the music room move and I ordered a new one. I was about to move my Grado Signature, 90s vintage, back to the Scout when the belt came in, but got to thinking maybe it's time to try something else and keep that one on the Rotel/SME table...which I MAY decide to sell as I am sort of downsizing from multiple systems (the Frazier Elevens may go as well) in advance of retirement and a smaller house.

The price is not fixed, but I don't want to go seriously higher unless there is something very, very compelling.

Also, no MCs. I am aware of the devotees and reasoning there, but I don't want to get into the transformer debates and such as well as the expense.

So, what say ye?

Dave

Sell your Elevens? Where are you and how much?

[Mallette]

MG, that's a decision I haven't made just yet, but leaning that way. They will be priced for what I think it would take to get any comparable speaker rather than what they have gone for in the past. That's because I am not all that keen on getting rid of them and dang sure don't want any seller's regrets.

I'll PM you first if I make that decision, and then put them in Garage Sale if you aren't interested.

Dave

[Mallette]

Anybody have thoughts on the Dynavector 20X2 high output model? It's MC, but can do without the transformer and I am OK with that. It seems to be a favorite of VPI owners.

Granted, it's also twice my price...but I might sell something to offset that if I really felt it was the way to go.

Dave

[thebes]

What arm is on the Scout? That should be your first step. Figure what the compliance is for that arm.

You are barred from receiving anymore recommendations until you've taken the first proper steps. Let's do this in proper audiophile fashion, seevooplaits monsor.

[oldtimer]

Smart man that Thebes. See post #4.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Not what you asked for but you said you will go higher if something compelling comes up.

I have a Shelter 90x with a Soundsmith retip. Not used very much at all, I will let it go for $1300. It is a $3000 cart. I use the MC input on my preamp but I needed I do have a very nice Jensen SUT to go with it.

But Thebes is right, you need to figure the weight of the JWM 9 arm (I think that is what it is) on your Scout first. I have a spreadsheet that does the calc.

[Schu]

there are High Output Moving coils available...

[Mallette]

Yes, Schu...I've found that Dynavector I mentioned. Seems to be a favored choice for the JMW arm.

I've never measured compliance on any arm. I generally go with the provided specs and recommendations of the maker and users. Hard to believe the JMW arm would have had these specs with it.

If you guys think this is critical and it isn't a big job, I am good with doing it. What are the perceived benefits/drawbacks?

I mean I'd never put a big ol' classic Decca or something on a very low mass arm, but that's just common sense and eyeballing.

Dave

Edited February 15, 2014 by Mallette

[mustang guy]

MG, that's a decision I haven't made just yet, but leaning that way. They will be priced for what I think it would take to get any comparable speaker rather than what they have gone for in the past. That's because I am not all that keen on getting rid of them and dang sure don't want any seller's regrets.

I'll PM you first if I make that decision, and then put them in Garage Sale if you aren't interested.

Dave

Great, thanks. The shipping may kill me FOB Houston. I have been watching for some big Fraziers for a while. I'd love to get something like The Californian, New Yorker, or Elevens.

[oldtimer]

It's a really good idea Dave. It has the tremendous benefit of narrowing down the choices, and it is simple as plug and play into an online calculator which I think has already been linked for you. As always, vinyl engine's web site is a boon.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

Yes, Schu...I've found that Dynavector I mentioned. Seems to be a favored choice for the JMW arm.

I've never measured compliance on any arm. I generally go with the provided specs and recommendations of the maker and users. Hard to believe the JMW arm would have had these specs with it.

If you guys think this is critical and it isn't a big job, I am good with doing it. What are the perceived benefits/drawbacks?

I mean I'd never put a big ol' classic Decca or something on a very low mass arm, but that's just common sense and eyeballing.

Dave

I had the Dynavector on a VPI Scout years ago. I want to say it was a 20x Hight Output if I remember correctly. I didn't like it. I remember that the entire soundstange was between the speakers and my CD player sounded better. YMMV. Others loved it.

[Guest David H]

I am currently using a Lyra Helikon, but I think I actually prefer my Grado Sonata.

My first 2 experiences with Grado were not great, I had a Grado Silver and a Gold, and although everything worked fine I was not excited about the sound.

Next I purchased a Benz MC-20-EL, decent cart, seemed to do everything well pleasant to listen to.

My next foray was the Lyra Helikon, an amazing cart, extremely accurate tracks well great sound.

Finally although reluctant I gave Grado another chance with the Statement Sonata. The Sonata was nothing like the experience I encountered with the Gold, this cart is lively and an absolute pleasure to listen to. The Grado is not as overly accurate as my Lyra but there is something special about the sound I am getting. Adding the Grado to my system has the same allure as switching to a set amp on horn speakers, it may not be as accurate but I don't care. It sounds that good.

Currently my Grado is on loan to Justin of Amps and Sound who I believe is using it on a VPI Scout.

Compliance is 20

Looks like with your arm the resonance is 9hz.

This cart comes in high and low output versions.

At $600 this cart falls into the or so category, but gets my vote.

Good luck, there is a lot of good carts available.

Dave

Edited February 16, 2014 by GotHover

[SonicSeeker]

I love my Ortofon 2M Blue. It's priced at about half your budget.

The black is very nice also but a bit more.

[Mallette]

Thanks, TWK....about all I need to know about the Dynavector. Forum guys rule, reviewers drool...

Think I've had good input via other sources that suggest high output MC isn't a good idea as well, so MM only.

GotHover, sounds like a good steer as I've had good experience with the Grado Signature I purchased in the mid 90s. My wife immediately said "That sounds better..." when it was installed. Not often one gets that high level endorsement for anything...

So...keep the thoughts coming. Let's stay with MM.

Dave

[LarryC]

My next foray was the Lyra Helikon, an amazing cart, extremely accurate tracks well great sound.

As you know but others on the forum may not, the Helikon (now discontinued and superseded) is/was a top-notch low-ouput moving coil cart, with far lower output but also with the added transparency, clarity, closeness to the sound, and lower noise that the breed can provide. They can have a fuller, more emphatic cleaner, more accurate portrayal of bass. Different cart and experience for sure.

Its output was only 0.5 mv, a tenth of the other carts discussed here, and probably needing some 30 db added boost through the preamp to keep the signal well above the noise level. No wonder Dave doesn't want to fool with that more expensive and complicated kind of thing.

IMO, the few high-output MC's I've heard (it's been a while) gave away the advantage of LOMC's, and didn't provide much benefit over an MM. The HOMC Benz Micro Glider and [edit] another HO Benz sounded opaque and not that terrific to listen to -- Benz is still around, tho' not the Glider.

Edited February 17, 2014 by LarryC