La Scala crossover upgrade options

[NBPK402]

I need to make some wedges for my La Scalas too. Has anyone made some that has a paper template I could use?

Edited February 18, 2014 by Ron

[Guest David H]

The fact that the bass peak is exactly the same with the La Scala II, with its much stiffer sidewalls, tells you it is not a vibration or stiffness issue.

I think the DJK port mod resolves the 150hz peak issue, and brings the bottom end up nicely. I was able to run them without a sub.

This mod can be 100% reversible, by adding to box to the bottom. I prefer the aesthetics of modifying the upper section.

Dave

[kg4guy]

I need to make some wedges for my La Scalas too. Has anyone made some that has a paper template I could use?

I think I have some around .

[NBPK402]

I need to make some wedges for my La Scalas too. Has anyone made some that has a paper template I could use?

I think I have some around .

It would be appreciated if you can send me a template that I can print out.

[Tony L]

Just a quick update to this thread. I mentioned in the opening post that I knew someone who could lend me a pair of ALK Universal crossovers. I've now have them:

They've been in the speakers for a week or two now. I'm running them on the 2 & 5 taps of the autoformer thingy, which appears to be the default setting - is this the right one for my K55Ms? Anyway I'm liking them a lot, in fact I'm buying them! They seem to pull the mid-horn back a little compared to the AL-3s and as a result sound warmer and rather more balanced / natural to my ears. The top end seems cleaner and more open too. Just a step up in all respects really. Ok, not an entirely fair comparison as my AL-3s are untouched and over 20 years old so may be a fair way off spec, but I'm in no rush to put them back in!

[Schu]

there can be a lot of magic in XO's...

[Guest David H]

Just a quick update to this thread. I mentioned in the opening post that I knew someone who could lend me a pair of ALK Universal crossovers. I've now have them:

They've been in the speakers for a week or two now. I'm running them on the 2 & 5 taps of the autoformer thingy, which appears to be the default setting - is this the right one for my K55Ms? Anyway I'm liking them a lot, in fact I'm buying them! They seem to pull the mid-horn back a little compared to the AL-3s and as a result sound warmer and rather more balanced / natural to my ears. The top end seems cleaner and more open too. Just a step up in all respects really. Ok, not an entirely fair comparison as my AL-3s are untouched and over 20 years old so may be a fair way off spec, but I'm in no rush to put them back in!

Nice, the universal is a great crossover.

Dave

[Marvel]

A friend of mine here in Chattanooga loaned me his Universals while I made new crossovers for my 89 La Scalas. They were really nice, and replacing my AL type made the LS listenable.

He had designed the ones I built for myself (DHA2), and to my ears, sounded very close. Mine aren't as pretty, though.

Bruce

[Deang]

Ready for this?

The DHA2 was designed by John Albright for his brother, who was using tube amps and wanted a simpler filter. "DHA" are the intials of John's brother. John ended up preferring the Type AA, and his Universals sat unused, and were often shipped around for people to try.

I built the Universals, and thought the midrange was too recessed, so I built John's DHA2. I thought it sounded great. What I didn't like about the DHA2 was that you couldn't adjust the midrange attenuation (fixed tap design). So, I lifted the midrange ground like the Universal, and gave it adjustable midrange attenuation like the Universal. I never gave it a name, I just called it, '"John's DHA2 with adjustable midrange attenuation like the Universal"'. I built and sold about a dozen when Bob decided to bounce a capacitor off of my head. He says, "I'm pretty sure that 3.3uF in the tweeter section is going to cost you some tweeters, even with that fancy auto bulb in there". So, Bob suggested dropping the 3.3uF to a 2 or a 2.2uF, and I thought it sounded better, especially with the Beyma CP-25 I was using.

'"John's DHA2 with adjustable midrange attenuation like the Universal" is now called the VTK-400 and is being sold by Volti Audio. I guess that's all I should say about that.

I finally decided to just change the first order tweeter filter to a third order like the Universal. Al took a look at it and tweaked the alignment and then the Super AA (now the SuperX) was born.

The current Universal is the 4th iteration. Though the parts values of the new version are the same as the third iteration, the capacitors cost considerably less, the low pass coil is physically smaller, and an adjustable L-pad for the tweeter has been added.

It was my idea to create an affordable version of the Universal, as well as one for the Cornwall. On my side, I was pursuing battery biased versions of the stock networks, which I actually like. Neither Al nor myself had anything in the "reasonably affordable" range, now we do. I went ahead and ramped up the parts quality of the SuperX to fill the void due to the departure of the more expensive version of the Universal I had been building. However, Al and me have come to an agreement, and if someone wants a pair, I'll be more than happy to build them.

Finally, when it comes to sound quality, my official position is that a pair of Type A or Type AAs loaded with Jensen paper in oil or Jupiter wax impregnated flat stacked films will kick the crap out of all of this stuff. At the end of the day, I'm still just an audio guy with an opinion, and just because I run a business, doesn't mean I've forfeited my right to have one of those

With that said, there are plenty who disagree with me, which is why I don't suggest the same thing for everyone. Crossovers are like any other component - so choose based on the the kind of sound you know you like, not on someone else's idea of what you are supposed to like.

Edited March 26, 2014 by DeanG

[Islander]

Thanks for that post, Dean. It was very informative.

[Marvel]

Now, I can't really remember what I built... I'm so confused. You sent me the parts, but I'd have to pull them out of the cabinets to see the layout again (been meaning to anyway, and make them LOOK better. My builds certainly didn't end up being a work of art).

Would like to end up getting some new ones from you, but the budget's too tight right now.

Volti Audio, huh? Why am I not surprised?

Bruce

[JohnA]

The Type AL-3s are not that bad a crossover. Still, I might be tempted to replace the capicitors, because of age. Even more so if the speaker sat unused for some years.

I also have a pair of little used early ALK universals I might be talked out of.

But, I see this reply is a bit too late. Oh, well.

Edited March 27, 2014 by John Albright

[Marvel]

John,

Haven't seen you on here fore quite a while. Your ALK universals really helped out while I got the DHA2 crossovers built. I didn't like the ALs that were in my LS. I do have another empty pair of LS cabs I am doing Dennis' bass mod on. They will need crossovers, too, at some point. If you really might sell them, send me a PM.

BTW, I live a lot close to Chattanooga now, if you would like to come hear the SETs on the LS.

Bruce

[JohnA]

Hi Bruce!

I lurk a little, but haven't had a lot to say. I retired, bought a convertible started learning bass guitar, and moved to Lakesite. I have a set of GotHover's tweeter horns looking for some B&C tweeters for my front 3. That will be the only reason I'd keep the ALKs. The Type AA's tweeter filter smoothes and tames the response of the K-77-M. I may not need that with the new tweeters.

Good to hear from you! And I WOULD like to hear La Scalas driven by a good the amp.

[JohnEast]

My first post, been a Klipsch owner since my first pair of Heresy's in 1979. I have just ordered the a/4500 from Bob Crites for a Lascala project, anxious to see what differences may appear.

[Axz Hout]

u

[onthethreshold]

!980 La Scala's w/Crites upgrade .Trying to tame mids w/ different cloth and screen .Will be bracing real soon .

[Islander]

I've posted this once or twice before, but it might be of interest to you.

 

When I first got my 1974 La Scalas (in 2006), the mid-range sounded kind of "shouty" to me, and wasn't the sound I was hoping or expecting to hear.  As well, the castings of the insides of the K400 horns were kind of lumpy and the paint was blotchy, so they weren't too pretty.

 

I experimented a bit, and solved both problems by adding three layers of stretchy black grille cloth to the inside of the cabinets, in front of the mid horns, but not in front of the tweeters.  One layer and two layers were tried, but weren't enough.  Three layers was just right.  Instead of mounting the cloth to the horns directly, I just stretched it and stapled it to the back side of the front panel of the cabinet, then re-attached the horns as they had been. 

 

Around the same time, I replaced the old worn plastic badges with new metal Jubilee badges, which look much better.

 

For those with some crossover expertise, the way to go would have been to lower the squawker output electrically (or would that be electronically?), and doing it this way is some kind of redneck engineering, but it sounds good to me and looks good, too.

 

In 2008, I added the 510 Jubilee tweeters and disconnected the stock LS HF sections.  The speakers remained that way until 2013, when I bought a pair of La Scala IIs from a forum member who lives near Vancouver.  The LSIIs got the new tweeters and had their HF sections disconnected, while the original La Scalas had theirs reconnected.  Then I moved them behind the sofa to serve as right and left surround speakers.

 

I'd been using Heresy IIs as surround speakers, so it seemed really decadent to use La Scalas instead.  However, I had them, so I might as well use them, and they're a far better match for the front JubScala IIs than the Heresy IIs had been.  It's fun to spoil yourself sometimes, plus it's great when one purchase results in upgrading the speakers in two positions in the room.

 

As you may be able to see, the speakers also have CT125 tweeters, installed a few days after the old tin-can caps were replaced with new Sonicaps.  The surround La Scalas are only about four feet from each ear, so with the receiver set to 7 Channel Stereo, the effect is a bit like listening to giant headphones.

 

Even after all these years, listening to the system still makes my day.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Islander

[Deang]

Trying to tame mids w/ different cloth and screen. Will be bracing real soon .

 

I'm blown away on a daily basis when I see people talking about how much better things sounds when they replace the deterioting stock capactors with low ESR film types, which to my ears just exasperates the issue. With these type capacitors, I have to knock 3dB off of the midrange or my LaScalas just sound like a blaring mess. It's an amazing transformation when you just drop down a tap and make the necessary capacitor adjustment (6.8uF instead of 13uF).

 

What sounds best to me personally may not be the least expensive solution, but a lot of experimentation has shown me that the best sound with horns and compression drivers comes when you use paper in oil capacitors or the wax types from Jupiter. I run the Jupiters, and use the stock settings on the autotransformer, and it sounds awesome.

 

Even if you change out the horn, the sound is still way too foward -- almost everyone backs off the midrange output an additional 3dB (6dB total), in spite of the fact that we are told that the aftermarket horns don't add any appreciable gain. This shows that the K-400/401 isn't as obnoxious as everyone thinks.

 

All of these tweaks are just bandaids.