Reel to Reel guys...

[Schu]

do any of you reel to reel guys know if any of these are worth the time to integrate in to a system?

Akai 1800

Akai 285

or anything on this craigslist page

I'm trying to get into for as cheap as possible to see how I like it or if its even worth the time.

[Mallette]

Can't be specific about those you've shown, but Akai made some fine sounding decks and their micron heads set a standard. The mechanical 4000D was probably the best selling R2R ever and best sound for the bucks as well. Too much stuff on the page link to comment on.

Dave

[billybob]

A forum member spoke of having one, Akai that is. Agree with previous poster, decent quality brand. Make certain that the heads are not worn so much is what I do.

I like the idea of reel tape. Makes for extended listening.

[jcmusic]

Akai did make some nice decks back in the day but, for what you are trying to do look for an Otari MX5050 BII. By far the best bang for the buck out there nothing else is close for the money!!!

[Schu]

what happens... do the metals oxidize?

I am still trying to learn about this stuff before (and if) making a purchase.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Schu

[Boxx]

Is there still program material available for those things?

Yes... ebay is a good source. Often times it is a 50/50 proposition when you buy. Sometimes the tapes play as if they were brand new, others are of poor quality. The actual tape is brittle and breaks easily.

You can still purchase "blank" tapes to make your on recordings. For me it involves copying from LP's, vinyl or CD's to a blank tape.

[Mallette]

Is there still program material available for those things? Even back in the day the lifespan of tape was questionable.

Acetate was definitely fairly short on shelf life, but the later formulations perhaps the most archival format before digital. The National Archives didn't switch to digital for a LONG time after it became the norm. I've noted no deterioration at all in my self-made tapes that go back to the 70s.

Pre-recorded tapes are very common on Ebay....though there are a lot of 3.5 ips ones that suck and the quality and noise level of the 7.5ips tapes vary greatly depending on the speed used to dupe them as well as the quality of the tape. I've purchased a number of excellent ones at 10.00 or less and the very best ones are superior to vinyl, sounding the same but, of course, having no clicks or pops and such.

It's a great "sideline" for audiophiles who want to tinker. I'd have little interest in making new ones as digital is better for that...but others mileage varies and that is cool. The Tape Project has produced some stellar works, at a price.

Dave

[Boxx]

I've noted no deterioration at all in my self-made tapes that go back to the 70s.

Same here....

It's a great "sideline" for audiophiles who want to tinker.

Also, these tape units need to be used and maintained. They can be like old men when sitting idle and prone to issues.

[Schu]

what about the multi head cassette players?

there is a lot more product available for those and it seems they are still being bought on eBay.

is HISS still an issue here with the higher end multi head units?

[kevinmi]

I think you will find most consumer decks to have average sound at best with 7 1/2 tape speed. To get stellar results you really need to run 15 ips, which is what the Tape Project tapes are. Tapes are also very expensive compared to all the other formats out there. If you buy used tape, you have to look out for SSS (Sticky Shed Syndrome), which makes most old tapes unplayable. New tapes are available, at a cost of around $60.00 for a 10.5 inch reel. On a high speed 2 track deck, that's good for about 1/2 hour to 45 minutes of music, depending on the length of the tape.

[Schu]

ah forget it... this is getting to complicated

[kevinmi]

ah forget it... this is getting to complicated

Don't give up so easily, Schu. It's really fun to watch those reels go round and round. Matter of fact, I just bought an Ampex 2 track mastering deck and can't wait to get it hooked up.

[garyrc]

Akai did make some nice decks back in the day but, for what you are trying to do look for an Otari MX5050 BII. By far the best bang for the buck out there nothing else is close for the money!!!

Otari, yes, and also Crown and Revox.

For two channel stereo, 1/2 track is better than 1/4 track, 15 ips is better than 7.5 ips. For prerecorded tapes, "real time duplicated" is better than "high speed duplicated." I have only heard a good 3 3/4 ips recording once, compared to good to great recordings at 7.5, and 15. Don't compare 3 3/4 ips to the 1 7/8 ips (or whatever it was) of cassette ... the special head, tape emulsions, and E.Q. / bias circuits of cassette made a good "Chrome" or "Metal" cassette sound better than reel to reel 3 3/4 ips, which the industry didn't bother optimizing. I have heard both 7.5 and 15 ips reel to reel sound better than some Lps, but they need to be compared on a case by case basis.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Garyrc

[Boxx]

Otari, yes, and also Crown and Revox.

Don't leave out Teac (and yes Sony made some powerful players).

[beeker]

Roberts was the name of the best reel machine i used. Also known as akai. Im in my 30's and have found, learning the hard way the more you spend buying a reel to reel from someone you trust is best. A lot of "nice looking PARTS UNITS" out there.

[garyrc]

Otari, yes, and also Crown and Revox.

Don't leave out Teac (and yes Sony made some powerful players).

My 1/2 track Teac was quite good, but my 1/4 track, 4 channel ("Quad") -- I think it was a 3340S, if I remember that well back to the '70s -- hissed like a Puff-adder in heat, even though the overall S/N ratio was good (but the spectral characteristics of the hiss were unfavorable). It was checked by Teac of California, and pronounced normal for that design. I probably wouldn't have minded if I was recording Rock or Pop, but the orchestral music I was taping had many soft passages that the hiss came through loudly. Dolby (then) never sounded good to me, so I tried DBx. There was pumping, and an engineer from DBx told me that it was the Teac's "head bumps" -- 3 dB bumps that were narrow deviations from the Teac's fairly flat response -- were what triggered the pumping in the DBx. He recommended trying Crown or Revox models. I got my money back from the dealer, and got a Crown, which was quiet, and sounded great, with DBx or without.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Garyrc

[garyrc]

Gary,

Where or whom did you record?

In the San Francisco Bay Area, mostly for my own amusement. The hiss was only a problem in doing temp or permanent tracks for student films (stereo double system with tape, sync, near sync and wild sync, as well as mag stripe & optical) and stereo theater (once quad theater) movies-of-the mind (with dialog or narration, as well as music). Dialog passages had either silence, sound effects, or orchestral music with many soft passages that the hiss came right through. I also did a few demos, in which the bands covered up the hiss nicely.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Garyrc

[Mallette]

45rpm is audibly superior to 33.33, but the difference isn't worth the loss of play time. Certainly I would use 15ips if I were location recording, but 7.5 with first rate tape and noise reduction yield inaudible hiss and perfect playback of recorded LPs in my experience...which goes back to the late 60s. A top tier cassette deck (cheap on Ebay) with Dolby C and metal tape yields pretty much the same. Issue with either format is that one must simply want the novelty and nostalgia appeal to use them for archiving, or have an interest in the pre-recorded material that remains available. In my case, it is a matter of yet undigitized legacy media plus the available pre-recorded R2R stuff.

For the average audiophile, and R2R is probably best something to think about if other things aren't in need of attention and an exceptional deal comes your way...and you've an interest in joining the hunt for the occasional great find for cheep that shows up on the web. Outstanding cassette decks can be had for chump change, and while some very good commercial material can be had, are probably best for legacy stuff and old home recordings of family events and such you might have kicking around.

Like everything in this hobby, some are fanatics, others could care less. Your mileage will almost certainly vary...

Dave

Edited February 19, 2014 by Mallette

[billybob]

Dude was member of our three piece garage band and was always recording us with a rtr. Need to see him again and find out if we went big or burned the tape. I sang falsetto on Janis J...

Have a RTR here, A sony. Still plays but the head is worn out, like mine.

[Boxx]

Amazingly, I have found for simple "plug & play" and enjoy, my Pioneer units have held their ground. The 707 and 909 are still going strong at my house. The motors and braking are still strong, the units have a nice look and they play very well. Both of these units are auto-reverse and still in demand.

Edited February 19, 2014 by Boxx