Tube Amp, what to know before purchase?

[joessportster]

Notice that no one ever says, "Buy that brand x tube amp, it sounds as good as solid state."

Funny how that works!! I have been eye balling this but still seem to be scared to try one....seems every time I buy something I always end up wanting the bigger heavier one.....guess thats just the way I am wired http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAQIN-MC-10L-Vacuum-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-Hi-End-/251461196592?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3a8c415b30

You are not alone, I was exactly the same way, never could leave well enough alone on any of my hobbies. Always looking for the next step up. You learn alot that way, But you loose something as well

That's why I am forcing myself to stay with what I have, I just want to enjoy music again

[franticsled]

Notice that no one ever says, "Buy that brand x tube amp, it sounds as good as solid state."

Funny how that works!! I have been eye balling this but still seem to be scared to try one....seems every time I buy something I always end up wanting the bigger heavier one.....guess thats just the way I am wired http://www.ebay.com/itm/YAQIN-MC-10L-Vacuum-Tube-Integrated-Amplifier-Hi-End-/251461196592?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item3a8c415b30

You are not alone, I was exactly the same way, never could leave well enough alone on any of my hobbies. Always looking for the next step up. You learn alot that way, But you loose something as well

That's why I am forcing myself to stay with what I have, I just want to enjoy music again

You hit the nail on the head. I am happy with what I have, but I might be missing something with the tubes!! I think I want to try a tube pre first, just for 2 ch, but that would be another story!!

[franticsled]

I almost feel like I will never be happy totaly.... I enjoy the hunt and doing research of various items. I do LOVE the looks of the tubes and picture a nice old school looking tube amp sitting on each one of my 2 channel speakers, whatever that flavor of the month may be!! would like to upgrade my sub as well as my processor for home theater. I dont know what is it but feel the HT could be much better, but thats another topic in another place!!

[derrickdj1]

As much coins that have been spent on some of the systems on the forum, try tubes! I am happy with my Hybird tube amp. Tubes in the front and SS in the rear.

[Guest " "]

A bit of a rhetorical question since I don't suppose anyone can give a clear answer....

Why is it that there doesn't seem to be any (specific) consensus that this amp or that amp sound best with horns and those amps suck and always suck?

Seems to me in the world of say, engines.... all Ford people can agree that the 427 is a killer engine? All Chevy people can agree that the 396 is a killer engine and all can agree that the Vega sucked?

I know that folks say "horns love tubes" but... the next sentence seems to be "try several & find one you like" rather than "this amp is agreed by 99% of horn folks to be among the best amps you can use..."

I've always wondered about the rhetoric to try several things & see what you like. It's like telling each individual to recreate their own wheel from scratch when there are already 'proven' recipes.

sounds great

mcintosh

cary

manley

VTL

marshall

shanling

sounds OK

carvin

peavy

sounds bad

console amps that have not been restored

vintiage amps that have not been restored

jukebox amps that have not been restored

baldwin amps that have not been restored

[Cut-Throat]

A bit of a rhetorical question since I don't suppose anyone can give a clear answer....

Why is it that there doesn't seem to be any (specific) consensus that this amp or that amp sound best with horns and those amps suck and always suck?

Mostly it is exaggeration. I heard a few people I know say that a certain brand of beer 'sucks and is pisswater'. I've seen those same folks grab one iced out of a cooler on a hot day and quaff it with the greatest of joy. It's all relative.

[Gregg357]

my vote is sell your current amp and buy an American designed Emotiva UPA-2, for about $200-225. these rock solid 125 watts will satisfy your ss thirst and could help you spent into the $1k tube amp range. at this price level you should expect to trust the sound and build quality.

my tube vote goes to the American designed and built, Bob Latino sold, VTA ST-120, or with patience and savings, the M-125 monoblocks.

http://dynacotubeaudio.forumotion.com/t396-prototype-125-watt-monoblock-tube-amplifier-kit

Edited March 1, 2014 by Gregg357

[tblake10]

my vote is sell your current amp and buy an American designed Emotiva UPA-2, for about $200-225. these rock solid 125 watts will satisfy your ss thirst and could help you spent into the $1k tube amp range. at this price level you should expect to trust the sound and build quality.

my tube vote goes to the American designed and built, Bob Latino sold, VTA ST-120, or with patience and savings, the M-125 monoblocks.

http://dynacotubeaudio.forumotion.com/t396-prototype-125-watt-monoblock-tube-amplifier-kit

This is the second recommendation in this thread for the VTA ST-120. Intriguing.

[bracurrie]

my vote is sell your current amp and buy an American designed Emotiva UPA-2, for about $200-225. these rock solid 125 watts will satisfy your ss thirst and could help you spent into the $1k tube amp range. at this price level you should expect to trust the sound and build quality.

my tube vote goes to the American designed and built, Bob Latino sold, VTA ST-120, or with patience and savings, the M-125 monoblocks.

http://dynacotubeaudio.forumotion.com/t396-prototype-125-watt-monoblock-tube-amplifier-kit

This is the second recommendation in this thread for the VTA ST-120. Intriguing.

I know the folks in Franklin TN that do Emotiva. Thier equipment, I have been told by those that repair a wide assortment of gear new and old, is nothing special for the price. I would vote to save your money and go with more money but way more value. I too am intrigued by the VTA ST-120. I would have pulled the trigger on them had I not been bi-amped and not needing tons of wattage.

Food for thought by Frank van Alstine. http://www.avahifi.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=106&Itemid=231 I have his Synegy 240 SS amp and am really happy. I haven't tried his tube gear, but its bound to good too. For the price I cannot see how you could beat it. The AVA people are also great to work with. American made and American serviced.

[kevinmi]

my vote is sell your current amp and buy an American designed Emotiva UPA-2, for about $200-225. these rock solid 125 watts will satisfy your ss thirst and could help you spent into the $1k tube amp range. at this price level you should expect to trust the sound and build quality.

my tube vote goes to the American designed and built, Bob Latino sold, VTA ST-120, or with patience and savings, the M-125 monoblocks.

http://dynacotubeaudio.forumotion.com/t396-prototype-125-watt-monoblock-tube-amplifier-kit

This is the second recommendation in this thread for the VTA ST-120. Intriguing.

Absolutely love my Latino ST-120!

[mark1101]

I had one of Bob Latino's early versions of that VTA-120. It was a good sounding amp for the money. However, there were some design issues, and I discussed them with Bob. I trust others found the same things because he fixed them all.

The newer versions have lowered the gains on the driver boards. The amp would sometimes overdrive based on too much input from the driver board. He came up with a time delay circuit to prevent repeated rectifier failures, of which I had a few. He also added a stepped attenuator to control the gain of the amp. This was a welcome change..........every amp should have a gain control.

Anyhow, the amp I had was built by Bob himself so none of the above was because of a kit build.

Bob is a great guy to work with. I would by another at any point. I often look at the website and want one. I agree it's a great deal for the money and will sound great with Klipsch horns. There are some low cost tempting tube preamps on the site as well.

[captmobley]

Mark's comments about wattage are words to be reckoned with. As with most everything in life, there are compromises. Higher power, less detail. My journey has led me from higher powered ss amps to low powered tube amps. I currently have 7 pair of tube monoblocks and love them all. My Welborne DRD 45's at 1.5 watts are currently my favorite. I haven't been able to find any lower powered amps! That said, I have my Klipschorns switched as mains for 2 channel with the Welbornes and as fronts for my home theatre with a Emotiva 125 watt amp with a simple Niles switch. For critical listening, I use tubes. For full tilt rock and roll, I switch the Niles and crank her up!

Best of both worlds.

[franticsled]

Yea I know what you mean!! I decided to wait and maybe can hear a couple different tube amps on speakers I am familiar with!!

[jimmytamp]

I had one of Bob Latino's early versions of that VTA-120. It was a good sounding amp for the money. However, there were some design issues, and I discussed them with Bob. I trust others found the same things because he fixed them all.

The newer versions have lowered the gains on the driver boards. The amp would sometimes overdrive based on too much input from the driver board. He came up with a time delay circuit to prevent repeated rectifier failures, of which I had a few. He also added a stepped attenuator to control the gain of the amp. This was a welcome change..........every amp should have a gain control.

Anyhow, the amp I had was built by Bob himself so none of the above was because of a kit build.

Bob is a great guy to work with. I would by another at any point. I often look at the website and want one. I agree it's a great deal for the money and will sound great with Klipsch horns. There are some low cost tempting tube preamps on the site as well.

I have the Bob's ST120 since a year ago & love it so much.

Mostly I use the Triode mode for my day to day listening.

Cheers,

Jimmy

[MAZ]

For what its worth I would maintain that buy it Made in the USA. There are some great builders here and a couple are forum members. They are highly motivated to make you happy and their quality is fine.

I fully agree.

Check out Bob Latino's dynaco based amps at www.tubes4hifi.com. Bob's amps are 'hot-rodded' versions of the orignal Dynacos.

They are 'tube-roll' friendly, so you can find your preferred sound.

They will 100% knock your socks off and dont cost an arm and a leg. I think that his ST70 will all options including Russian pio caps lands at about $1000 built.

Bob Latino is the paradigm of customer support, He called me 9:30 am on a Sunday once to answer pre purchase questions that I had emailed 5 minutes prior.

Edited July 1, 2014 by jmazillo

[MAZ]

Whoops.. just noticed the post above my previous post (and the previous mention of the Latino amps...)

I have the st-120 with the low gain board and it works flawlessly, sounds fantastic.
The low gain board can take 12au7,12at7, cv4003, 12bh7, and some other more obscure tubes. You can make it sound bright or dark.
You can run kt88s or kt120 main tubes in the st120 and a tube or weber copper cap rectifier.

Bob's amps will blow away any Chinese stuff out there, seriously.

Edited July 1, 2014 by jmazillo

[derrickdj1]

Get yourself a decent tube amp and only after you have one, can you know first hand what you like and don't like about the tube sound. Yes, this make take more than one try.

Edited June 30, 2014 by derrickdj1

[Max2]

I have read that 30 watts from a tube amp is like 90 SS?

False. What many mean to say, is that it might take less tube watts to satisfy people. But watts are watts. If you want real loud, you better be very careful about those Dared amps, and many SE amps like it. They are great sounding amps but do not deliver high power. Many are less than 20W. (Dared also makes some PP amps)

If you want LOUD, you should begin your search at 60W per channel with a push pull amp.

The smaller SE amps under 20W are for careful, close listening at modest volume. Think of it like gourmet food - it's not the quantity it is the quality of flavor that counts.

Many people with Klipsch speakers can use tube amps as small as 1W, but they are not listening at loud levels. I love these small power amps too, but I also do not listen at loud levels. I hope that helps. I've been listening to and designing tube amps for 40 years, so feel free to ask questions. I want you to get the tight amp!

Just out of curiosity, which McIntosh amp would you choose out of the MC30, MC225, MC275 or a different one? It seems they are like flavors of ice cream in various forums. Some people say the 30 has the best mids, but lack in other areas, some think the mc225 was the very best McIntosh ever built while the mc275 seems to get the least love even though is supposed to be the most popular.

[Max2]

I have read that 30 watts from a tube amp is like 90 SS?

False. What many mean to say, is that it might take less tube watts to satisfy people. But watts are watts. If you want real loud, you better be very careful about those Dared amps, and many SE amps like it. They are great sounding amps but do not deliver high power. Many are less than 20W. (Dared also makes some PP amps)

If you want LOUD, you should begin your search at 60W per channel with a push pull amp.

The smaller SE amps under 20W are for careful, close listening at modest volume. Think of it like gourmet food - it's not the quantity it is the quality of flavor that counts.

Many people with Klipsch speakers can use tube amps as small as 1W, but they are not listening at loud levels. I love these small power amps too, but I also do not listen at loud levels. I hope that helps. I've been listening to and designing tube amps for 40 years, so feel free to ask questions. I want you to get the tight amp!

Just out of curiosity, which McIntosh amp would you choose out of the MC30, MC225, MC275 or a different one? It seems they are like flavors of ice cream in various forums. Some people say the 30 has the best mids, but lack in other areas, some think the mc225 was the very best McIntosh ever built while the mc275 seems to get the least love even though is supposed to be the most popular.

I am just not a big fan of the sound of the McIntosh Amplifier (aka "unity coupled amplifier"). This is a Class B push pull amplifier with a lot of negative feedback through the transformer and a long signal chain. All of this just to get the benefit of longer tube life. Yes, it is a rather brilliant design, and I give credit for that, but the design goal of making power tubes last 10,000 - 20,000 hours wouldn't be my goal if you have to give up clarity and detail. I think the McIntosh Amplifier made a lot of sense in it's day (1950s), but it just doesn't make that much sense for audiophiles today when there are so many better sounding amps available, albeit with shorter tube life.

I also understand and appreciate the McIntosh Mystique. They are wonderfully made, and a lot of nice engineering went into them. But many other amplifier makers can also do that - Audio Research being the most obvious. Now, if you sit down with a ARC D-75A and a McIntosh MC-275, you will be immediately aware of the sonic differences in these amps and why the topology is so important to the sound qulaity. Both amps are beautifully built - really. Both are highly reliable and stout and heavy and all those things people like in amps. If you want to put a set of new tubes in an amp, put it in an equipment closet for 10 years, never touch it, and have it play every time you turn the switch, get the McIntosh - no question about it. But, if you want the maximum clarity, finesse, fine grained detail, and pure musicality from a tube amp, there are about 50 others which I would choose before the McIntosh.

Thanks for the info. How silly would it be to run tubes through an AVR for the two front mains for stereo music listening as well as using it for the multi channel content?