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MWM in Hornresp K-43 vs. K-33


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#1 ClaudeJ1

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:53 AM

Several things got me to post about this topic, including Mark 1101's questions about my Quarter Pie bass horns, which are an MWM derivative.

When I first owned 4 MWMs bin in Nov. 2007, they came with different woofers in them. I had 2 Gauss and 2 K43's. Even though the Gauss could handle the most power, I thought they sounded and measured the worst, so I sold them, which temporarily left 2 empty MWMs bins. The remaining K-43's, had a 55 Hz. peak, which has been observed by others in the High Efficiency Speaker community.

Gary Gillum, long retired, was Chief Engineer at Klipsch in the 70's and 80's. He designed the famous Kg2 and Kg4 speakers (PWK himself told me that the KG2 was "KG squared" which stood for Gary's initials. In any case, Gary is the co-patent holder with Paul Klipsch on the design of the MWM woofer bin, which is still in production as the "top of the line" THX rated, all horn Theater System, modified by current chief Engineer, Roy Delgado. I and several other people here, feel this is the best speaker system that Klipsch makes. It's a monster with no equal, and now that there is a new Horn Loaded Sub available, the world's Movie theaters will see an improvement in their LFE channels, but I digress

I called Gary at his home to interview him. He went through the development process of the MWM, based on Paul's ideas, and he assured me that the MWM was designed with and for the K-33 woofer, which was the exact same woofer used in the Khorn, Belle, LaScala, and Cornwall speakers at the time (mid-70's). He assured me that the ONLY reason they added a K-43 was STRICTLY for power handling and NOT better performance. The curve in the patent itself is based on the K-33 woofer, even though all of the production MWM and MWMs woofer sections all shipped with K-43 woofers as standard.

After my conversation with Gary, I took a pair of K-33 woofers from my LaScalas and put them in the 2 empty MWMs bins. I measured and listened. I noticed right away that the bass seemed deeper and fuller. After this observation, I advised Mark1101 to put either K-33 or Crites woofers in his 4 MWMs bins, which he still has today.

From prior posts, I had saved James Cullison's Hornresp model of the MWM, which, I believe, was done with a K-43 specification. I changed the throat area to a more accurate figure, then substituted the T/S specs of a K-33 and this is what I got in Hornresp. Looks like this modern simulation agrees with what I heard 6 years ago. Hope you all find this interesting and helps to prove that the K-33 is the better woofer to use in a MWM for home use.


Edited by ClaudeJ1, 27 February 2014 - 08:48 PM.

2.1/6.1=Front R+L=Sound Physics Labs (SPL) TD-1, Center=SPL Runt, SR, SL, and RC=Super Heresy's. All driven by Onkyo 818 AVR Amp section. Twin Danley DTS-10 Super Spud Subs front R and L side walls in corners driven by 0.2 Pre-Outs to Bryston 4B.
Oppo 83 SE with Sabre DACs for CD 2.1, HDMI out for 6.1 to Onkyo DSP's. Audyssey Multi EQ/XT32 room correction for ALL listening.

#2 Marvel

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 09:32 AM

Claude,

Is the black line the K-33? We got two of the MWM bins from JWC for the college where I work. We will, for a while, pair them with the JBL 2365 horns, but looking for someone who wants to get rid of some K69 drivers. They will go (at least for a while) into a large music room. They currently have two small Polk speakers with 8 inch woofers in them. They've blown them once, lol.

Bruce


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#3 ClaudeJ1

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 10:59 AM

Is the black line the K-33?

YES, the black line is the K-33. I am surprised the difference is that pronounced, unless JWC had a different driver when he did the original model, I'm not 100% sure on that. Either way, it's a much flatter and deeper curve. Besides, who wants to argue with Gary Gillum, who's the original builder and patent holder? LOL.

JC had 3 different interpretations of the MWM model, all the same length, but slightly different mid sections. I chose this one because the 55 Hz. peak matched the measurements I made 6 years ago when I had K-43's in my MWMs bins.


Edited by ClaudeJ1, 27 February 2014 - 03:12 PM.

2.1/6.1=Front R+L=Sound Physics Labs (SPL) TD-1, Center=SPL Runt, SR, SL, and RC=Super Heresy's. All driven by Onkyo 818 AVR Amp section. Twin Danley DTS-10 Super Spud Subs front R and L side walls in corners driven by 0.2 Pre-Outs to Bryston 4B.
Oppo 83 SE with Sabre DACs for CD 2.1, HDMI out for 6.1 to Onkyo DSP's. Audyssey Multi EQ/XT32 room correction for ALL listening.

#4 toolz

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 07:06 PM

Great information. I found a very inexpensive pair of empty MWM splits and was trying to decide what driver to put into them.


finding the music with old ears

#5 djk

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:25 PM

"but looking for someone who wants to get rid of some K69 drivers."

New version (BM-D750 series II) from P-Audio is better, and only about $150 each (I could get them to drop ship and pay the freight to you too).

http://www.loudspeak...-AUDIOBMD750II/


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#6 Marvel

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:38 PM

thanks Dennis, we're looking for funds or donors. Could these still be crossed low enough to mate with some MWM bins? The room they will be in isn't large, and will be for music playback only.

Bruce


"I hear Mariachi static on my radio and the tubes they glow in the dark..."
-- Warren Zevon

#7 ClaudeJ1

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Posted 27 February 2014 - 08:54 PM

Well I found some Klipsch K1543 specs, which is the latest blurb sheet form Klipsch on K-43. Turns out whatever was used before was incorrect. Here is the REAL comparison of the latest K43 (gray) with the latest K33 (black). The difference isn't that great, but the K33 still get a bit lower........and much cheaper.

[attachment=89256:K33vsK43MWM.jpg]


Edited by ClaudeJ1, 23 April 2014 - 04:48 PM.

2.1/6.1=Front R+L=Sound Physics Labs (SPL) TD-1, Center=SPL Runt, SR, SL, and RC=Super Heresy's. All driven by Onkyo 818 AVR Amp section. Twin Danley DTS-10 Super Spud Subs front R and L side walls in corners driven by 0.2 Pre-Outs to Bryston 4B.
Oppo 83 SE with Sabre DACs for CD 2.1, HDMI out for 6.1 to Onkyo DSP's. Audyssey Multi EQ/XT32 room correction for ALL listening.

#8 Marvel

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 12:05 PM

Claude, do you have the data for the MWM cabinets that I can plug into HornResp. Or could you email me JWC's MWM file?

Bruce


"I hear Mariachi static on my radio and the tubes they glow in the dark..."
-- Warren Zevon

#9 ClaudeJ1

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Posted 20 March 2014 - 10:23 PM

Claude, do you have the data for the MWM cabinets that I can plug into HornResp. Or could you email me JWC's MWM file?

Bruce

Sorry for the slow response. I just noticed this. there are 3 MWM models that JWC did., but I can send the data, or just put it up here, as there may be others who will benefit.


2.1/6.1=Front R+L=Sound Physics Labs (SPL) TD-1, Center=SPL Runt, SR, SL, and RC=Super Heresy's. All driven by Onkyo 818 AVR Amp section. Twin Danley DTS-10 Super Spud Subs front R and L side walls in corners driven by 0.2 Pre-Outs to Bryston 4B.
Oppo 83 SE with Sabre DACs for CD 2.1, HDMI out for 6.1 to Onkyo DSP's. Audyssey Multi EQ/XT32 room correction for ALL listening.

#10 Marvel

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:11 PM

JC doesn't remember this. If you have the files to send me, I would appreciate it.

Bruce


Edited by Marvel, 26 March 2014 - 09:11 PM.

"I hear Mariachi static on my radio and the tubes they glow in the dark..."
-- Warren Zevon

#11 mach-1

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 10:16 PM

I wonder how the K33/43 - K55 specs compare to the JBL 150-4C - 375 in the early Hartsfield corner loudspeaker? Next compare the Vitavox K15/40 - S2 drivers. Late 50's no compromise tweaks! :)


Edited by mach-1, 26 March 2014 - 10:23 PM.


#12 Gnote

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:39 PM

Hey Claude awhile back Smashwuf recommended Eminence Lab15 drivers. I was wondering what your thoughts were on these vs the K33



#13 ClaudeJ1

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:43 PM

Hey Claude awhile back Smashwuf recommended Eminence Lab15 drivers. I was wondering what your thoughts were on these vs the K33

Those are Sub Woofer drivers. Not good for a Quarter Pie or LaScala. Low efficiency too.


2.1/6.1=Front R+L=Sound Physics Labs (SPL) TD-1, Center=SPL Runt, SR, SL, and RC=Super Heresy's. All driven by Onkyo 818 AVR Amp section. Twin Danley DTS-10 Super Spud Subs front R and L side walls in corners driven by 0.2 Pre-Outs to Bryston 4B.
Oppo 83 SE with Sabre DACs for CD 2.1, HDMI out for 6.1 to Onkyo DSP's. Audyssey Multi EQ/XT32 room correction for ALL listening.

#14 ClaudeJ1

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Posted 20 April 2014 - 11:45 PM

JC doesn't remember this. If you have the files to send me, I would appreciate it.

Bruce

OK. PM me your Email. I have Jepegs of 4 different ones.


2.1/6.1=Front R+L=Sound Physics Labs (SPL) TD-1, Center=SPL Runt, SR, SL, and RC=Super Heresy's. All driven by Onkyo 818 AVR Amp section. Twin Danley DTS-10 Super Spud Subs front R and L side walls in corners driven by 0.2 Pre-Outs to Bryston 4B.
Oppo 83 SE with Sabre DACs for CD 2.1, HDMI out for 6.1 to Onkyo DSP's. Audyssey Multi EQ/XT32 room correction for ALL listening.