David Byrne: How architecture helped music evolve

[Chris A]

Pretty interesting and non-judgmental approach to topics that we toss about on these forums:

 

 

Chris

Edited September 15, 2015 by Chris A

[oldtimer]

Thanks Chris I enjoyed that very much.

[totalcomfort]

Nice link interesting

[Tarheel TJ]

Fascinating way to look at music. It makes perfect sense. This is why Arena rock bands play slow ballads and the kids listen to EDM on their ipod earbuds.... cause that's the only thing that sounds good that way!

Of course, this is also why a lot of audiophiles listen to nothing but Diana Krall and Jazz quartets, because their puny little speakers can't replicate dynamics like horns can.

[Chris A]

That's what got my attention - it just makes sense that music types are suited to their venues...and the clientele's preferred mode of listening (or not listening, as the case may be).

I saw the documentary on the Beatles' long-time secretary recently, which initially focused on their Liverpool venue - the "Cavern Club", which was literally what I would class as a dry sewer under the city - carved out of stone and supported by concrete structures internally. Sound quality was what it was then due to the acoustics of the space.

I also saw a documentary of Bela Fleck touring Africa looking for living ancestors of the banjo. When he got the sequence on the native community using built-in-ground marimbas of large physical dimension and "very high SPLs", it became clear to me that the music clearly evolves to suit the venue, in this case outside without amplification.

It shouldn't really be a surprise that the venue spaces shape the music but I found the talk to be fascinating, still.

Chris

[twk123]

Fascinating way to look at music. It makes perfect sense. This is why Arena rock bands play slow ballads and the kids listen to EDM on their ipod earbuds.... cause that's the only thing that sounds good that way!

 

Of course, this is also why a lot of audiophiles listen to nothing but Diana Krall and Jazz quartets, because their puny little speakers can't replicate dynamics like horns can.

 

I have to disagree with you on the EDM music. If you are ever in Denver, CO check out Beta Nightclub. It features 4 FunktionOne speakers that are amazing to listen to:

 

Edited December 11, 2014 by twk123

[seti]

David Byrne has a really cool blog and a streaming playlist.

 

He did a series of recordings from rooftops of sound scapes of New York and London. They were really cool especially on big horns.

[Travis In Austin]

That was awesome, thank you for posting this.

Travis

[Chris A]

Fascinating way to look at music. It makes perfect sense. This is why Arena rock bands play slow ballads and the kids listen to EDM [Electronic Dance Music] on their iPod earbuds.... cause that's the only thing that sounds good that way!...Of course, this is also why a lot of audiophiles listen to nothing but Diana Krall and Jazz quartets, because their puny little speakers can't replicate dynamics like horns can.

 

I have to disagree with you on the EDM.  If you are ever in Denver, CO check out Beta Nightclub.  It features 4 Funktion One speakers that are amazing to listen to:

 

 

I watched the Funktion-One video and thought about what they were saying--and even more on how they said it, i.e., it isn't a precise discussion (but it's accurate).  The discussion suffices for the audience watching the video who largely aren't familiar with why one type of loudspeaker sounds better than another one, or at least without introducing a lot of "marketing hype" and other inaccuracies into the conversation.

 

Tony Andrew's and John Newsham's focus on horn-loaded loudspeakers resonates with my experience, and is congruent with others understanding the "why" of horn-loaded loudspeakers (most often I think of PWK as the continuing proponent of horn-loading).   This is especially so when thinking about the Tony Andrew's comment about horn-loaded bass and interestingly about cone-driver midrange horns.  Clearly the focus of that company is on live music support, especially music that is played in larger venues at high SPLs.  Moving the phase plug of the midrange horn/driver out into a lower SPL region and using larger diaphragm radiating areas like the Funktion-One loudspeakers use, lowers the nonlinear effects of high SPL found in the throats of live music loudspeaker horns. This lowers harmonic distortion and I'm not sure about modulation distortion, but I'd guess that Funktion-One also uses highly linear cone drivers on their midrange horns too, to lower AM distortion effects at high SPLs.

 

It's also interesting to me that this company resides in the U.K. - a place where horn-loaded loudspeakers literally aren't accepted by the local "audiophile" population, rather this group represents a rather closed-thinking group that accept only the concept of direct-radiating cone loudspeakers: witness the UK audiophile's collective reverence towards the BBC series of loudspeaker studio monitors and their descendents to the exclusion of horn-loaded loudspeakers.

 

Funktion-One's cone-driven midrange horn with visible phase plug is clearly meant for filling professional venues with lots of sound power, and not really meant for home installs where the average SPLs are typically 10-30 dB lower--just due to smaller room sizes.  This is a paradox that is discussed in Toole's book that describes how listeners in smaller spaces prefer lower SPLs than in larger venues. 

 

This is also the first case of horn-loaded loudspeakers that I've seen where a horn-loaded loudspeaker design is specifically meant for very high average SPL performance in larger venues for those genres that demand high SPL, the message being that the hardware also evolves--to suit the venue and genre.

 

Chris

Edited December 13, 2014 by Chris A

[twk123]

 

Fascinating way to look at music. It makes perfect sense. This is why Arena rock bands play slow ballads and the kids listen to EDM [Electronic Dance Music] on their iPod earbuds.... cause that's the only thing that sounds good that way!...Of course, this is also why a lot of audiophiles listen to nothing but Diana Krall and Jazz quartets, because their puny little speakers can't replicate dynamics like horns can.

 

I have to disagree with you on the EDM.  If you are ever in Denver, CO check out Beta Nightclub.  It features 4 Funktion One speakers that are amazing to listen to:

 

 

I watched the Funktion-One video and thought about what they were saying--and even more on how they said it, i.e., it isn't a precise discussion (but it's accurate).  The discussion suffices for the audience watching the video who largely aren't familiar with why one type of loudspeaker sounds better than another one, or at least without introducing a lot of "marketing hype" and other inaccuracies into the conversation.

 

Tony Andrew's and John Newsham's focus on horn-loaded loudspeakers resonates with my experience, and is congruent with others understanding the "why" of horn-loaded loudspeakers (most often I think of PWK as the continuing proponent of horn-loading).   This is especially so when thinking about the Tony Andrew's comment about horn-loaded bass and interestingly about cone-driver midrange horns.  Clearly the focus of that company is on live music support, especially music that is played in larger venues at high SPLs.  Moving the phase plug of the midrange horn/driver out into a lower SPL region and using larger diaphragm radiating areas like the Funktion-One loudspeakers use, lowers the nonlinear effects of high SPL found in the throats of live music loudspeaker horns. This lowers harmonic distortion and I'm not sure about modulation distortion, but I'd guess that Funktion-One also uses highly linear cone drivers on their midrange horns too, to lower AM distortion effects at high SPLs.

 

It's also interesting to me that this company resides in the U.K. - a place where horn-loaded loudspeakers literally aren't accepted by the local "audiophile" population, rather this group represents a rather closed-thinking group that accept only the concept of direct-radiating cone loudspeakers: witness the UK audiophile's collective reverence towards the BBC series of loudspeaker studio monitors and their descendents to the exclusion of horn-loaded loudspeakers.

 

Funktion-One's cone-driven midrange horn with visible phase plug is clearly meant for filling professional venues with lots of sound power, and not really meant for home installs where the average SPLs are typically 10-30 dB lower--just due to smaller room sizes.  This is a paradox that is discussed in Toole's book that describes how listeners in smaller spaces prefer lower SPLs than in larger venues. 

 

This is also the first case of horn-loaded loudspeakers that I've seen where a horn-loaded loudspeaker design is specifically meant for very high average SPL performance in larger venues for those genres that demand high SPL, the message being that the hardware also evolves--to suit the venue and genre.

 

Chris

 

 

Thanks for the reply, once again I am humbled by the vast experience of this forum. I have listened to the flagship series from Funktion-One at beta nightclub in Denver. The main dance floor has 4 units in each corner and its by far the best sound system I have ever heard. Many top name DJ's have also commented it is their favorite venue to play at. After going to the club back in the day I finally looked more into it and watched some other Tony Andrews clips and thats part of the reason I got into Klipsch products. Supposedly when they were first calibrating the system in Denver they cranked it up too far and set off all the car alarms down the block.

 

Personally, I think they need to put in Dolby Atmos into the club environment with a modulator so the DJ can "place" layers of music in the 3 dimensional space of the dance floor in real time. Such as rain effects and 3d panning etc. This will bring back some of the live performance aspects of DJing which has largely been lost due to modern mixing software.

[Chris A]

Bump for another thread discussing live sound.

[juniper]

Very cool, never thought about birds beaks acting like horns. Bird watching will never be the same!

[ZEUS121996]

Thanks for posting this Chris, very interesting talk

 

Mark