How has the government interfered with your small business?

[mustang guy]

In another thread started by Sargent about 3% interest, the topic began to sway to politics and small business. I thought it would be polite to start a new thread concerning this topic.

As you all know, data is extremely important to government. This is how they keep metrics. The trouble is that small businesses don't usually have the means to hire professionals or employees to handle this. Although it may be easy for a single clerk to handle the paperwork, that is an overhead that cannot be spread over a large revenue base. That employee may well be half the cost of the entire business. The bigger your business, the easier it is to absorb the cost and the smaller the percentage of overhead it creates. This is why small businesses are at a huge disadvantage.

Another example of how government interferes with small business is competing with them. In my case, it was the state government who snatched a customer. Rather than working with me, they decided to take the customer for themselves. It was a development authority, which was state and county funded. My business was in the same industrial park. I had a union workforce. I had newer facilities, and better trained workers. In spite of all that, they undercut me, and caused the permanent layoff of 10 people.

Another example of government interference that was devastating to me was in an immanent domain for a state corridor, which is partially federally funded. I was working with the state to relocate my customers, and was having no issues at all working within their imposed time limit. I had a total of 150,000 sq ft operating about 1 million pounds a day by truckload and LTL's. Teamster union employees. My kids were young and I wanted to take them to Disney World. Before I left, I gave the state guy my cell so he could reach me, and asked if it was OK for me to leave. He was from Florida, and he told me it was no problem and to enjoy the time with the family. "Disney is great!", he said. I called the office from the Disney hotel and was told that he had called EVERY customer I had and gave them 60 days to get out. Needless to say, that ruined my vacation. It also lost half my customers. Once you put a scare into a manufacturer, they get very punchy. I sued the state and they settled. This is an example of what happens to some people when they get power. Many government employees are afflicted with this, and it is always the businesses who suffer.

How about this one. In most states, most roofs installed on commercial and industrial buildings is galvanized steel. In this state it is by far the most common. Here's the rub. It is illegal to have a galvanized roof, but not illegal to sell it or install it. Here's why. because we have acid rain, the zinc is washed from the metal every time it rains. The allowed amount of zinc released into the waterways is tiny. In fact, it is a small fraction of the amount allowed in your tap water. Why, then is the sale of galvanized metal roofing legal? If you have ever filed, paid for and maintained a stormwater permit, including semi annual grabs from every outlet and then paid analysis, you will know what overhead really means. It's frickin ridiculous. Two summers ago, I was fined over $5,000 because I was late with a grab. It was the responsibility of the manufacturer tenant to make this grab, and they dropped the ball. The thing about it is this. Every damn grab yields about the same results. They just reached into my pocket and stole five grand.

I have many many more examples I will share, but I hope people will become involved in this thread, so I will stop here.

Edited March 28, 2014 by mustang guy

[BigStewMan]

But the government is here to help you (insert emoticon of a smiley face puking).

[oldtimer]

I have that one if you want it.

[mustang guy]

45 minutes of filling out forms. That does not include the clerical part. That is the doctor's part. Then the administrative workers can enter this plethora of information into the federal database.

Must be a very unusual kind of practice. I've never heard of such a thing, and I have been around many doctors in many medical environments my whole life. I've also worked in the medical software industry, medical marketing, and involved with health agency, and I just can't imagine what your guy is doing for 45 minutes after each patient. But, it must be if that's what you say.

If he doesn't make rounds it is at most 10 patients a day. Perhaps you should check back with your doctors. This is a very new problem.

Oh, and it is not after each patient. He has his laptop in the exam room filling out the damn form. He is a GP. Nothing fancy.

Edited March 28, 2014 by mustang guy

[Taz]

City employe asked me to let him know if I seen some kids painting house addresses on the curb in front of houses. (It was just some kids trying to make a little sumer money and make it easier for emergency services to find the proper address when they responded to a call). He said they did not have a business permit and so were violating the law. I told him I thought he was being unreasonable. He said that McDonalds has to have a permit to business and it was not fair that these kids did not get a business permit. So I asked him how many burgers did the city flip for McDonalds?

A friend that was there said it was the nicest way he had ever seen anyone tell someone else to **** OFF. (Other words could be to "Fornacate Off," just in case the first word gets censored)

[oscarsear]

Navigating computerized medical charting is fraught with failures of systems analysis. This is why there is an entire profession dedicated to medical billing - cuz if you get it wrong the 1st time you acct's receivable can get delayed for quite sometime. Insofar as charting: For home skilled nursing a recert documentation is required at 180 days (as I recall). It is 40 pages of digital gunk that has to be ciphered from preset codes for oodles of conditions, etc, so forth and so on. Now using the care provider to do that was the 'time saving' idea. It is at least 1.5 hours away from hands on care giving. Docs now hire digital documentation asst's to accompany them on daily rounds, etc for immediate dictation. In other words to render efficient care it now takes the doc and a paid digital documentation specialist. And this is before Obamacare................

[minermark]

Feel lucky you don't live in Calif.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

A typo on a Secretary of State filing cost me $175 for an amendment and a bunch of time. In Delaware a simple phone call would have fixed the typo.

[oldenough]

I like supporting guerilla operators.

The US Government does at times as well....

[beeker]

great thread mustang. i wrote for an hour last night in the 3% thread then decided not share due to the depths or heights i was ranging . knowledge to make money and politics are about as hot as a pair of klipsch speakers not much of a difference to me i can listen to the 3 choices all day long. so waiting waiting to jump in here

[mustang guy]

As you all know, data is extremely important to government. This is how they keep metrics. The trouble is that small businesses don't usually have the means to hire professionals or employees to handle this. Although it may be easy for a single clerk to handle the paperwork, that is an overhead that cannot be spread over a large revenue base. That employee may well be half the cost of the entire business. The bigger your business, the easier it is to absorb the cost and the smaller the percentage of overhead it creates. This is why small businesses are at a huge disadvantage.

The above is a general comment, and I have a general answer: Keep your business appropriate to your skills. If I decide I want to make cars, do I complain that I can't hire the needed overhead like Ford? Just because you are allowed to compete with Ford or Pfizer, doesn't mean you can or should. Yeah, bigger guys can do bigger things. No surprise. Be the guerrilla if you don't have an army.

You are way off base with that statement. Skills have absolutely nothing to do with an overburden of red tape imposed by regulations. Skills? That really doesn't make sense to me at all.

Another example of how government interferes with small business is competing with them. In my case, it was the state government who snatched a customer.

I don't know the details of course. But, if your business depends on getting one customer, I'd say that's a dangerous model. I don't know of that many businesses where they are in competition with governments in such a way. Once more, I think there is an appropriateness of scale question to be answered. I just wouldn't start a business where the State of California was my competitor. (I'm sure there is more to your story and I am not challenging your facts or conditions. I am just being general for the purpose of the idea, which is "government interference.")

Did you not read what I wrote? I was there first. They moved in on me!

Two summers ago, I was fined over $5,000 because I was late with a grab. ..........The thing about it is this. Every damn grab yields about the same results. They just reached into my pocket and stole five grand.......

I get mad when I get traffic tickets. I mean, I get that you don't like it, but is this really a legit complaint about being able to start a business?

I think you are in one of the heavily regulated industries. I don't think that is typical of most business.

Owning commercial or industrial property invites those regulations. It has nothing at all to do with the type of business you are in. Where I live, it is called SWPP or Storm Water protection Plan. Just last year, a builder was fined over $5,000 for not filing a plan before he began construction. I was fined for not providing test sample data after having my permit for over 10 years without a problem, and with the data always being about the same. What, do you think somehow my roof changed? What do you suppose the governments do about the million miles of galvanized gaurd rail? What about all the salt they put on roads. All I did was have roofs made of galvanized steel like 80% of everybody else. It is not anything at ALL like a speeding ticket.

You seem to be an advocate for government, so I tend to think you are politically active. I am not, and do not wish to talk politics. I voted for Obama for his first term. I voted against him for the second.

Everything we have discussed thus far has stemmed from my thought of government incubators for small businesses to level the playing field somewhat. Most businesses fail when they go from basement operations to those with real overhead. If our government would help those folks, it would ignite the American Dream again for many. I also think it would be nice to see the government spearhead a "Buy USA" movement. Though it ma not make much difference in spending for the avaerage consumer, it would most definitely let us United Stater's know the government is on our side. How about a domain BUYUSA.GOV, wherein you could register your company as 100% manufactured in the USA with 100% USA components? I would seek out those goods.

45 minutes of filling out forms. That does not include the clerical part. That is the doctor's part. Then the administrative workers can enter this plethora of information into the federal database.

Must be a very unusual kind of practice. I've never heard of such a thing, and I have been around many doctors in many medical environments my whole life. I've also worked in the medical software industry, medical marketing, and involved with health agency, and I just can't imagine what your guy is doing for 45 minutes after each patient. But, it must be if that's what you say.

If he doesn't make rounds it is at most 10 patients a day. Perhaps you should check back with your doctors. This is a very new problem.

Oh, and it is not after each patient. He has his laptop in the exam room filling out the damn form. He is a GP. Nothing fancy.

Just in the last year, I have been in at least 12 unique doctor patient situations. Three with my wife, five with my mother and 4 of my own. I have not seen any signs of this idea you are expressing. The change from paper to computer charting has thrown many OLD doctors for a loop. They will say it takes them "hours to do anything on the computer." Well yeah, when you don't know how to operate Windows or mice, it's going to be a long day. Computer charting now is in virtually every office. But the young girls type faster than the doctors can even talk. If MDs are trying to do this "hands on" with no computer skills, it will be a nightmare. The biggest part of the information load is for reimbursement systems. Coding has to be exact and precise in order to get paid properly for the work. I have good personal relationships with a couple of my docs, and have talked at great length about their problems in this area. Patient face time is down, salaries are down, but most offices have systems which drop all this computer input on young low paid slaves medical assistants.

And doctoring is not the professional pot of gold it once was. It's pretty much a glorified job and little else. Many are getting out of clinical practice for that reason. The insurers have turned doctors into basically salaried work machines. And the salary ain't that good. But that's not really the government creation, that's the insurers who wanted to bring medicine to heel through contract arrangements. Docs fell for it, and now they are not too happy.

Our family physician is 55 years old. Is that an OLD doctor in your mind? He also has a degree in Pharmacology. He is not technically inept either. The data entry is done in the examining room so as not to duplicate from paper to screen. This data entry is not on behalf of insurance, it is to comply with the new Obamacare regulations. Our physician has stated that he cannot make a living in this system. Before Obamacare, he was seeing 30 patients a day. He has many employees and nurses. You have insinuated that he is an exception. As I said before, go talk to a GP today, not 3 months ago.

[Sancho Panza]

Some years back the Feds shut down the place where I worked & the Owner got 22 Years & 10 Months in the Fun House.

[mustang guy]

Some years back the Feds shut down the place where I worked & the Owner got 22 Years & 10 Months in the Fun House.

Yikes! I won't complain about my fine any more.

[LarryC]

mdeneen, on 28 Mar 2014 - 3:09 PM, said: mustang guy, on 28 Mar 2014 - 12:28 PM, said: 45 minutes of filling out forms. That does not include the clerical part. That is the doctor's part. Then the administrative workers can enter this plethora of information into the federal database. Must be a very unusual kind of practice. I've never heard of such a thing, and I have been around many doctors in many medical environments my whole life. I've also worked in the medical software industry, medical marketing, and involved with health agency, and I just can't imagine what your guy is doing for 45 minutes after each patient. But, it must be if that's what you say. If he doesn't make rounds it is at most 10 patients a day. Perhaps you should check back with your doctors. This is a very new problem. Oh, and it is not after each patient. He has his laptop in the exam room filling out the damn form. He is a GP. Nothing fancy.

Many medical clinics and offices have been having to transition from paper to electronic records, and I have seen some pretty heavy changeover effort over the past year. Most staff seemed to think it was a transient burden that would soon become much easier. No one complained that much when I asked about it -- it was something they should do, was the sense of it. That's what this description sounds like, but I'd like to get some followup feedback from docs and staff that I see.

The docs I see busily type in stuff right after each visit Some record a dictation which somebody somewhere types in. It seems to move quite efficiently when it's done either way.

Edited March 29, 2014 by LarryC

[mustang guy]

The idea of an incubator I was talking about was not a traditional incubator. The idea I was talking about was a limited public service to small businesses which choose to have the help with red tape only. Say for instance you are an owner operator truck driver, and you have your own 48 state authority. You can be the most skilled driver on the planet, but be crappy at all of the bills of lading, safety compliances, and taxes. These are all areas where any help, especially free help, could be crucial to survival. In a more entrepreneurial setting, let's look at a budding building contractor. A skilled builder who has come in demand, and decided they want to start there own business. This person could use the help with permits, taxes, code compliance, labor laws, and any other government compliance overheads.

The SBA would be perfect to take this on. They already have facilities all over the country. They are already geared to interact with small businesses. The SBA is one of the few government agencies where I like my tax dollars to go.

[eth2]

There is no question that the climate for business has significantly improved over he past several years, but not for the reasons that have been discussed thus far and, depending on your point of view, perhaps not in the best interests of the 99%:

1. The composition of the Supreme Court has shifted from a liberal activist court to a pro-business, conservative Court. One need only look at the Court's recent decision in Citizens United v Federal Election Commission for proof. Who would have believed that corporations are "persons" for purposes of free speech (read as funding political corruption and buying politicians). In one of the most disingenuous or naïve lines in any SCOTUS decision the Court held, "We now conclude that independent expenditures, including those made by corporations, do not give rise to corruption or the appearance of corruption." Enter the Koch Brothers who raised more than $400 million in the 2011 - 2012 election cycle to push legislation and buy politicians who would increase their wealth. Does anyone think what is good for the Koch brothers is good for America (minus the 1%)?

2. Labor Unions and the middle class have been decimated - I have spent my entire life involved in labor relations. I have represented employees (as I do now), and represented corporations while they offshored jobs to third-world countries (until I couldn't look in the mirror any longer). Whether you liked labor unions or not, you cannot argue that they helped build a middle class who could afford to buy the things that business (including small businesses) made. With the destruction of he middle class, who is going to buy homes, cars, Klipschorns, etc.? (Ans: the Chinese). We have stalled the inevitable collapse by the housing bubble (loans to those who did not have the income to buy those houses but could speculate as long as the bubble continued to grow), virtually free money now (0% interest to banks to make 3% loans), a fed that continues to pump liquidity into a system that cannot hope to retire that debt. As a result of the destruction of the middle class by offshoring manufacturing, labor costs have declined and job opportunities for the majority of Americans that allowed them to buy homes, send their kids to college, and retire with dignity are disappearing. How many of us believe that things will be better for our kids, as a group, than they were for us? However, the climate for business is vastly improved at the same time that the disparity between the top 1% and the rest of America widens at an exponential pace. Good time for business.

3. Regulatory agencies are crippled - The EPA, NLRB, EEOC, Anti-trust Division of the Justice Department, and countless other watchdog agencies have had their budgets slashed by a dysfunctional Congress to the point that they cannot function. You may not like the EPA, but think back 30 years when rivers were on fire and you couldn't breath in Los Angles. The last time I was in China people were walking around with masks because the air was so bad. Do we want to follow that path?Think about the tobacco companies that lied to us about the effects of cigarettes. Can we trust them?. I see clients every day that have been fired because they are "too old" and because of a horrible decision by the Supreme Court have no way protect themselves. If you think age discrimination is not rampant, you are living in a dream world. The EEOC has neither the staff, nor the political will, to stand up to corporations any longer. Until last year you had protection if your were fired or disciplined for asserting your rights under employment laws. Enter our pro-business friends on the Supreme Court. As a result of a recent decision you no longer have this protection...at least not in a way you could ever win in court. But it is good for business.

Lastly, in response to the comment about truck drivers - My father was a truck driver and his father was a truck driver. Prior to deregulation of the trucking industry you could work hard (my dad worked 60 to 70 hours a week) and provide for your family. We lived in a neighborhood with engineers, accountants, and yes, factory workers. We were all the same in terms of our security and our standard of living. No more. An owner operator scrapes by and every time the cost of fuel goes up he wonders if he can go on. But shipping costs are lower so it is better for business. Is it good for America?

So the question is not whether things are better for business, they clearly are better than they have been since the 1920's. The question is whether things are better for Americans

Edited March 29, 2014 by eth2

[BigStewMan]

The question is whether things are better for Americans

They once said that things go better with Coke.

[eth2]

The question is whether things are better for Americans

They once said that things go better with Coke.

.Yea, I heard that. Could never figure out whether the were talking about the cola or the subject of the Eric Clapton song. However, I was certain that they were not talking about the Koch brothers. As a side note, they bought a company I once worked for and paid cash. It was a small lumber company called Georgia Pacific.

[Taz]

I used to work as a Registered Nurse in more than one setting. When I first started the majority of my time was spent doing patient care and some charting. The last few years I spent very little time giving actual patient care and most of my time charting. Most of my co-workers and myself feel this is a real Rip Off of the patients and interferes with the quality of care our patients get.

John

[mustang guy]

This sign hung prominently above PWK's desk.