Is there such a thing as a "black quiet" amp?

[thebes]

My experience with Jolida tubes resulted in tube noise......... My experience with Cary tubes was clear of tube noise. My experience with SS is no extraneous noise, reliability and performance. The SS equipment is older Adcom gear and newer ACCUPHASE. Oddly I had system hum I could not lay hands on until recently when I learned it was coming from a Balanced Power line conditioner. It was very low frequency transformer hum. In my experience tubes were a poor experience rife with failures and oddities such as tube artifact. Guess I'm just not esoteric enough for tubes as such things seem to just come with the territory.

Tell me Oscar, when listening to SS do you find yourself inching the sound up, or down. For me, the type of distortion produced by SS had me inching the volume dial down. There's some sort of subliminal irritation caused by SS above a certain volume that drives me that way, although, I must admit, a big bruiser of a SS amp I had in here last summer produced a lot less of that feeling.

That difference makes all the quirks of tubes an easy listening choice. Hey , I do believe I have a album from the Four Lads here. I think I'll put it on my turntable, I'm sure there's no noise associated with that. Let's see remove while somehow holding large platter by the edges...

[eth2]

Does the 'light sssshhhhhhh' increase with volume? If noise increases with volume, it could be components (i.e. tubes, resistors, cold solder joints, loose connections, dirty tube sockets, bad filter cap, etc.) of the amp may be deteriorating and drifing out of spec or going bad.

If I put my ear to the tweeter, I can hear the ssshhhh. It is not very loud, but it does increase marginally at full volume. I am still using an old preamp (ss Phase Linear). I am hoping that when the Peach arrives, the noise will abate..at least a little.

[USNRET]

Does the 'light sssshhhhhhh' increase with volume? If noise increases with volume, it could be components (i.e. tubes, resistors, cold solder joints, loose connections, dirty tube sockets, bad filter cap, etc.) of the amp may be deteriorating and drifing out of spec or going bad.

If I put my ear to the tweeter, I can hear the ssshhhh. It is not very loud, but it does increase marginally at full volume. I am still using an old preamp (ss Phase Linear). I am hoping that when the Peach arrives, the noise will abate..at least a little.

The Peach has arrived at her maker's shop.

[eth2]

Does the 'light sssshhhhhhh' increase with volume? If noise increases with volume, it could be components (i.e. tubes, resistors, cold solder joints, loose connections, dirty tube sockets, bad filter cap, etc.) of the amp may be deteriorating and drifing out of spec or going bad.

If I put my ear to the tweeter, I can hear the ssshhhh. It is not very loud, but it does increase marginally at full volume. I am still using an old preamp (ss Phase Linear). I am hoping that when the Peach arrives, the noise will abate..at least a little.

The Peach has arrived at her maker's shop.

Thank you. I hope it does not get home sick and decide to stay.

[garyrc]

With Khorns you will get hiss untill you get about 10 feet away with the newer tube amps I'm familiar with. With an old McIntosh tube I had, you could hear hiss from the next room.

[Marvel]

With Khorns you will get hiss untill you get about 10 feet away with the newer tube amps I'm familiar with. With an old McIntosh tube I had, you could hear hiss from the next room.

Was that just the power amp causing the hiss or with a pre added into the mix? Seriously, I can't hear a change from my JM Merlin even when I turn it almost all the way up, and the Moondogs only have the low freq. AC hum, (at low levels) that is masked immediately by the music once it starts playing.

I just find it hard to believe that newer stuff is that noisy. I do have trouble finding a quiet 6DJ8 for the Merlin, but when you have a quiet one, they last a pretty long time.

Bruce

[Schu]

Tell me Oscar, when listening to SS do you find yourself inching the sound up, or down. For me, the type of distortion produced by SS had me inching the volume dial down. There's some sort of subliminal irritation caused by SS above a certain volume that drives me that way, although, I must admit, a big bruiser of a SS amp I had in here last summer produced a lot less of that feeling.

No inching here... no hiss either, just black on black silence.

Of course, as with most things, there is a sweet spot (range). But that isn't the sole issue of amplification.

Edited April 1, 2014 by Schu

[joessportster]

Of course a silent tube amp to YOU may not be silent to me. Have your hearing checked lately? Just because you don't hear the noise doesn't mean it's not there.

agreed, But I have had other people hear the amps as well and I would bet 1 of those people can hear better than 99 percent of the public (he's blind)

also i listen to headphones now and they reveal MUCH more than open air speakers, and the Justin Weber ampsandsound SE-84 is dead quiet at max volume no music playing

reading all the reply's it seems alot of people settle for some level of noise. I could not enjoy music with the background noise personally so it became a priority of mine, I used K-horns, oris horn orpheans, and edgar horns, as well as avantgarde duo's all of the later 3 were more efficient than K-horns and no hiss

So again I say the statement all tube amps are noisy is FALSE

It is a question of matching your system, the more efficient you speakers the less power required. The real question is can earl live with the background noise he has with his amps.

Edited April 1, 2014 by joessportster

[Mallette]

No question my HF hearing is iffy or non-existent above 10k these days, but I often still hear noise in systems. However, I can weigh in that the Jolida FX10 I recently acquired from USNRET is now quite silent at 3/4 open with the 107db/w/m Frazier Elevens...and they don't come much cheaper than the FX10.

Just spent some quality time with it last night and was quite surprised by just how quiet it was. I can still generally hear some hiss on most phono stages whether VT or SS.

Dave

[oscarsear]

My experience with Jolida tubes resulted in tube noise......... My experience with Cary tubes was clear of tube noise. My experience with SS is no extraneous noise, reliability and performance. The SS equipment is older Adcom gear and newer ACCUPHASE. Oddly I had system hum I could not lay hands on until recently when I learned it was coming from a Balanced Power line conditioner. It was very low frequency transformer hum. In my experience tubes were a poor experience rife with failures and oddities such as tube artifact. Guess I'm just not esoteric enough for tubes as such things seem to just come with the territory.

Tell me Oscar, when listening to SS do you find yourself inching the sound up, or down. For me, the type of distortion produced by SS had me inching the volume dial down. There's some sort of subliminal irritation caused by SS above a certain volume that drives me that way, although, I must admit, a big bruiser of a SS amp I had in here last summer produced a lot less of that feeling.

That difference makes all the quirks of tubes an easy listening choice. Hey , I do believe I have a album from the Four Lads here. I think I'll put it on my turntable, I'm sure there's no noise associated with that. Let's see remove while somehow holding large platter by the edges...

Currently I run an Accuphase E530 integrated SS amp. It is not inexpensive product and though I have experienced SS troubles in the past with cheaper product....... that is not the case now. I would fully admit to not being tube savvy. It requires a degree of preoccupation that may or may not offer greater acoustic rewards. Fact remains that hum quirkiness is parcel to the devices. I would gladly place my 30 wpc Accuphase up against comparably priced tube product anytime. And, I know each time I fire it up that it will work and not eviscerate a tube or require the routine of detailed balancing.

[joessportster]

My experience with Jolida tubes resulted in tube noise......... My experience with Cary tubes was clear of tube noise. My experience with SS is no extraneous noise, reliability and performance. The SS equipment is older Adcom gear and newer ACCUPHASE. Oddly I had system hum I could not lay hands on until recently when I learned it was coming from a Balanced Power line conditioner. It was very low frequency transformer hum. In my experience tubes were a poor experience rife with failures and oddities such as tube artifact. Guess I'm just not esoteric enough for tubes as such things seem to just come with the territory.

Tell me Oscar, when listening to SS do you find yourself inching the sound up, or down. For me, the type of distortion produced by SS had me inching the volume dial down. There's some sort of subliminal irritation caused by SS above a certain volume that drives me that way, although, I must admit, a big bruiser of a SS amp I had in here last summer produced a lot less of that feeling.

That difference makes all the quirks of tubes an easy listening choice. Hey , I do believe I have a album from the Four Lads here. I think I'll put it on my turntable, I'm sure there's no noise associated with that. Let's see remove while somehow holding large platter by the edges...

Currently I run an Accuphase E530 integrated SS amp. It is not inexpensive product and though I have experienced SS troubles in the past with cheaper product....... that is not the case now. I would fully admit to not being tube savvy. It requires a degree of preoccupation that may or may not offer greater acoustic rewards. Fact remains that hum quirkiness is parcel to the devices. I would gladly place my 30 wpc Accuphase up against comparably priced tube product anytime. And, I know each time I fire it up that it will work and not eviscerate a tube or require the routine of detailed balancing.

solid state is easier that's a given, and I will concede that some solid state sounds very good, (In fact good enough I would forego tubes, except in my experience to get a SS amp that is about equal to tubes sound quality you have to spend large loot) IE... its cheaper to get very good SQ with tubes.

As far as maintenance goes Tube amps have come along way with auto bias and designs that will allow tubes to last 1000's of hours for me maintenance is a non issue

now when you get into tailoring the sound thru tube rolling and all that Tubes can get tricky. SS does not allow for experimentation ( of course that may be a good thing)

CAVEAT: I know you can spend UBER amounts of $$$ on both SS and tube amps, I am comparing regular joe budgets, In my experience if you buy a 1500.00 tube amp. It would cost well over that to get equal SQ in SS

[Axz Hout]

x

[babadono]

If you have no thermionic or gaussian noise (hiss) from your tweeters, I would want to know #1 How's your hearing? Had it checked lately? #2 How are your tweeters/frequency response of your system(whether it be tube or solid state)?

[NOSValves]

With Khorns you will get hiss untill you get about 10 feet away with the newer tube amps I'm familiar with. With an old McIntosh tube I had, you could hear hiss from the next room.

Some newer tube gear maybe.....I'd say you must of had some really poorly operating vintage McIintosh tube gear. I've rebuilt lots of MC gear and have never had a problem getting them quiet...also never had to do any special to achieve it. The same for most tube gear in general.

[joessportster]

As far as maintenance goes Tube amps have come along way with auto bias and designs that will allow tubes to last 1000's of hours for me maintenance is a non issue

Leaving my SS on 24/7 it has 350,000 hours on it in the 40 years I have been listening to Klipsch. A little hiss 1 foot from squaker/tweeter, 32 dB voltage gain design.

Everything above absolute zero has motion and may be considered as noise. One individuals music may be noise to another.

Whats your point ?

I made no assertion as to tubes outlasting SS, I said tubes will last 1000's of hours and its a non issue FOR ME

Of course everything above 0 = noise But noise does not necessarily = hiss, and the original question was is there a silent / black background amp

The answer is yes there are silent noise floor amps, In other words no HISS during silent passages in music,

This has nothing to do with the theory that everything above 0 = noise, rather it has to do with how high the noise floor is in an amps design, some are designed very well and will exhibit no audible noise for human ears during silent passages, others not designed so well will exhibit a higher noise floor, which will be heard in the background and silent passages

Thanks Craig for posting, its good to get a point of view from someone that is IMHO an expert on tube amps

this applies to both SS and Tubes

[joessportster]

If you have no thermionic or gaussian noise (hiss) from your tweeters, I would want to know #1 How's your hearing? Had it checked lately? #2 How are your tweeters/frequency response of your system(whether it be tube or solid state)?

I guess the word silent is misleading, I thought it obvious that if you power up a system and stick your head inside a horn you will hear a very low noise only audible with your head right there against the driver (If you are using a good amp, designed with a low noise floor)

This of course becomes not audible when you move away from the driver, therefore making it silent at listening position

I dont know anyone that listens to music with the speakers pressed against there heads, so I naturally assume this discussion was dealing with noise levels at listening position

I have no desire to discuss theory, as I don't feel it pertains to the question asked by Earl

In my experience with some horn systems at 114db efficient I literally would have to stick my head inside the horn in order to hear anything with system on and volume at max, (no source playing of course) I considered that amp silent as it pertains to listening to music

[JL Sargent]

The original poster asked if there is a "black quiet" amp. The answer to that exact question is NO. What each individual can actually "hear" is very subjective.

[beeker]

eth2...i said if you have noise try pulling the 1st small pre tube in your amps. it is a fact that if it goes silent then its the tube. if not simply find a good tech and possibly let the seller know if you paid the value of the amp "in working condition"

grab a set of the small pre tubes then burn them in for up to maybe 50 hrs little volume gains at a time. Then buy 2 quads of them $30 quads on ebay. Black plastic bottomed chinese el34's. I had bought some from him when they were quads for $15 shipped. They'll need burned in too for about the same amount of time. I prefer burning in one set at a time. Sometimes i have all 8, pre and power tubes but it really hasnt effected gear iv used using either method. All 8 is fine small pres and power.

I hear a glow is the only way to describe it. And the glow is actually the tubes with the heat and vacuum making their own sound at "black sound"...at the speakers if you here sound, pull the 1st pre tube. This is standard tube information

EDIT: I have to state the fact that you have to let tube amps warm up and cool down. After up to 3 day full non stop sessions i sometimes after turning everything off let my tube amps set at idle for up to an hour. 2 other things i thought about is you have to turn amp on 1st then pre then cd or record table as well as cdp then pre then amp in progression as well. Another huge thing that i find can great noise is 1 cable interference 2 a good power conditioner as well as im sure you all know but i wanted to just make a note of it.

edit: wire intereference is hugely a maker negative noise

Please update what has been found at least through pm my friend

Edited April 2, 2014 by beeker

[Thaddeus Smith]

I have the very faintest hiss in my system when no music is playing; I have to cram my ear into the tweeter to hear it. All other noise that I have is recording specific - it drives me batshit crazy sometimes, but then I just change albums.

It's all about the source material. You can't fix crap.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Thaddeus Smith

[beeker]

I wouldnt even consider touching the peach(wish i had one of course!) other than to turn on and off especially with Mark recently working on it unless it may need to be re worn in a bit. He is in a whole different league than myself of course with electronics although as an avid vacuum amp consumer/user from the outside im confident about my knowledge.