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Epic CF4 Needs overhaul


wvu80

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Buy one of these and some sand paper Black & Decker RO100 5-Inch Palm Grip Random Orbit Sander

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If your not using a stripper. I would use 150g to get the finish off then 220 to get it ready to stain. You could go with no stain and they would be light oak. Might hide a few things better.

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Edited. re: USING A STRIPPER???

I was doing some more sanding, and remember, I am still learning. I did NOT use a stripper due to my ignorence in refinishing, but now I think I probably need to do that before I finish sanding and apply a finish.

The laminate (at least this laminate in bad shape) looks like kind of a sawtooth pattern (bottom to top)

^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v

And after I sanded, the surface is smoother on top, and looks more like this. very smooth to the touch:

V V VV V V V V V V V V V V V V V V

The point is, after sanding a NEW pattern shows up, and I'm guessing the old stain and acrylic is down INSIDE the grooves, which I can't now get out without sanding/destroying the laminate. You can see the horizontal pattern about 3/4 to the bottom of this pic. The bottom of the speaker looked pretty good and the finish was consisent looking, until I sanded it. I used a single stroke with the sanding block from the top to the bottom, I did not stop in the middle.

post-58280-0-56220000-1396985234_thumb.j

My question is, SHOULD I be using a stripper? I'm putting things on hold until I hear back from you guys. (including stripper jokes) :P

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I am taking a brief break to think about my next steps. I have done a lot of work, but there is some more work to do it right. I was so excited to get the speakers off Craigslist, and then so freaked out they looked so bad I kind of jumped in to refinish without really knowing what I was doing. Did you know they now have Youtube vids that tell you how to refinish furniture? Who knew? :o:rolleyes:

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I do have a 7" orbital sander. I am hesitant to use it, or even get the 5" model you suggest, because I don't know how to use it properly and I don't want to ruin the finish. I have since watched a couple of Youtube videos, but they are simplistic and don't come close to demonstrate how to RE-finish veneer that has been neglected and damaged for 20 years.

You can see by my picture that the finish/sanding is not yet flawless, and even. I am guessing some of the rough spots will even out by applying stain and some more light sanding, but the point is, I am guessing; I don't know that.

Here is the right side of the undamaged speaker I finished by hand. It looks pretty good, this is natural lighting by a window, no direct sunlight and no internal lighting.

And you are right Mr. Reference Head, that unfinished surface does look much lighter, and looks good in its unfinished glory. :) I am probably still going to go ahead with the Golden Oak to return the speaker to close to original condition, and hopefully the finish will hide some blemishes. I think the key is that I have to get it to look good BEFORE applying the stain.

post-58280-0-74020000-1396976299_thumb.j

Edited by wvu80
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I wouldn't consider using a stripper. I'm not saying you can't or that you couldn't get good results. I would be worried about really damaging the veneer. I've used stripper on solid wood before but not veneered plywood.

Are you sold on keeping the golden oak? You could do a two step staining and go darker but still see the wood grain.

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Thanks for the comments, Ryan. I agree with you, my first committment to these speakers has to be "do no harm."

And "yes" I'd like to stay with the lighter/ stock color, meaning the Golden Oak. I'm not sure why, it just seems like the right thing to do. :) If a couple of coats would darken it just a bit more than stock and look good, I would certainly go with that.

Because of the uneveness after I have sanded, and my reluctance to dig deeper into the finish with sandpaper, I'm guessing one coat of stain, some more 220 sanding, then the second coat might be the way to go.

When I am removing sawdust with a damp rag, that finish absolutly pops; it's just beautiful, and the blemishes disapear. I'm just looking for a guarantee that when I am done, it will really look that good.

Keep those suggestions coming; we are getting closer to the finish line.

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Edit: I just found a pic that wasn't too large for an avatar, with me in it. This is my wife, and my son who in in Germany with the USAF. It is likely that when he finishes his service, he will get the Klipsch's.

Edited by wvu80
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Just don't use some super stripper. Thay have some you can use inside. I think I had a link in my nothing in the box thread of what used. Just put a small amount on and after 4 or 5 hrs use a plastic puddly knife and it will all scape off like butter. It even drys so your scaping a day clay layer of the speaker. Up to you you can do just as much or more damage with sand paper.

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OK, no stripper. I had sanded pretty well before, and Mr. Reference's advice to NOT over-sand sounded about right, so I cleaned up the surface one last time with a dry rag, and stained.

Before:

post-58280-0-74860000-1397070469_thumb.j

And after, with stain: (the lighting is slightly different, so the lighter places near the bottom of the pic are not really lighter than the darker top, which is in a slight shadow)

post-58280-0-36780000-1397070590_thumb.j

I am doing the work in our finished basement, so there is an old 36" tube TV in there. I had to move the speakers, because when they were within 5 feet of the TV, the magnetic field from the two 12" woofers caused the colors to distort on both sides! :lol:

Edited by wvu80
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that last pic you posted looks just about perfect, great job. if you can get the rest of the speakers to look even close to that i think you did well compared to how they looked at first. smooth even sanding & staining is the key. that stain stinks up the whole house huh?

if thats the best you can get them i'd be happy with that. let the stain dry for a day or 2 & VERY lightly sand the surfaces to smooth any raised grain, then do the poly coat. i would suggest practicing on a scrap piece of wood for the poly, since its the last step you dont want to experiment on the speakers. apply with a foam brush or fine bristle brush & keep a wet edge, dont go back over any area thats already applied as it can make the bush marks/streaks not self level as well. or use the spray, again if you practice on something first to get the hang of applying in smooth even paths, its should look great.

lots of effort but the end result looks great!

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that last pic you posted looks just about perfect, great job. if you can get the rest of the speakers to look even close to that i think you did well compared to how they looked at first. smooth even sanding & staining is the key. that stain stinks up the whole house huh?

if thats the best you can get them i'd be happy with that. let the stain dry for a day or 2 & VERY lightly sand the surfaces to smooth any raised grain, then do the poly coat. i would suggest practicing on a scrap piece of wood for the poly, since its the last step you dont want to experiment on the speakers. apply with a foam brush or fine bristle brush & keep a wet edge, dont go back over any area thats already applied as it can make the bush marks/streaks not self level as well. or use the spray, again if you practice on something first to get the hang of applying in smooth even paths, its should look great.

lots of effort but the end result looks great!

Thanks for the compliment!

About that stink: Well, I didn't exactly tell my wife what I was doing the basement and she rarely goes down there, so yes, I did stain inside, with all windows and door open, of course. She came into my upstairs Mancove (it's not quite big enough to be a ManCAVE ) and asked me "what stunk so bad." I told her it might have been my bare feet in my old smelly tennis shoes, and she seemed to think that made a lot of sense, so I didn't elaborate on the staining going on in her basement. :rolleyes:

As I have gotten into the sanding, I now see every flaw, and the good parts as well. These speakers have consecutive serial numbers, but I swear it looks like one was kept in a nice listening room, and the other one kept outdoors in the sun, by a creek! Both speakers had water stain damage on the tops, but just the one had the gouge and did not clean up perfectly, but the other undamaged surfaces did.

I just finished the staining, one coat. The Minwax can says not to sand in between coats, but I was only planning one coat at this time. Before I did the overall staining (and before I read the directions) I did put a small amount of stain on the repaired area, which was almost white due to sanding. Then I sanded lightly later. The sandpaper almost immediately clogged with the stain. Despite that, I would not be against trying another light sanding, if I can get those light areas less noticable.

I'll let you all comment on the difference in the damaged speaker:

Before:

post-58280-0-93540000-1397152398_thumb.j

After: (the lighting is inconsistent with a florescent overhead to the left, but the color is fairly true, and the highlights on the top are not as pronouced as they look.

post-58280-0-58140000-1397152824_thumb.j

Edited by wvu80
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Music to refinish speakers by, the Russian Easter Overture, by Rimsky-Korsakov. The whole piece is good, but tune in about 13:15 for a two minute sampler that absolutley cooks to the end. B)

Edited by wvu80
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looks good & the gouge cleaned up nicely. might be worth a try to put some stain on the lighter areas only & let sit for 10-15 minutes, might make it look more even to the rest of the finish.

either way they look MUCH better!

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I'm still working on the refinish, but I'm spending a lot of time researching Youtube videos on applying poly. Apparently, the only thing every Youtube video agrees on is all the other ones are wrong! :blink: Some say apply with a rattle can, some say use a fine brush, some say use the cheap foam brushes. I bought foam brushes, but now I'm thinking soft brush, so I can work the poly into the deep part of the grain for the first (thin) coat. I would think the Minwax guys should know what they are doing:

And then after buying the satin poly, I'm second guessing myself, having seen some really nice looking high gloss finishes. It looks like the satin looks closest to the stock finish, but I'm not sure. And if you're not sure, shouldn't you hedge your bet and buy semi-gloss? I have no clue. :rolleyes:

This is your last chance to weigh in with a suggestion for poly! I'm thinking two coats, and probably three. I spend so much time analyzing, I bet it is TEN TIMES easier for you guys to make that decision than me!

Edited by wvu80
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i have used the satin & it is closest to original on laquered med oak klipsch speakers. & personally i like the satin finish better than gloss for deep grained furniture & speakers. too many coats or too glossy starts to detract from the natural look of the wood, it fills in the deeper parts & the gloss makes it look kinda cheap. thats why oiled finishes look so nice, its the natural wood with all the textures it should have. my vote is for the satin. & a brush should be fine, keep it thin but complete coverage, i think 2 coats will be fine. the minwax poly is easy to work with & provides great protection.

Edited by klipschfancf4
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looks good & the gouge cleaned up nicely. might be worth a try to put some stain on the lighter areas only & let sit for 10-15 minutes, might make it look more even to the rest of the finish.

either way they look MUCH better!

Done!

I had some darker Minwax Walnut stain I dabbed in the light areas, then wiped off quickly before it became too dark. Just as you predicted, the light spots are now better integrated into the overall pattern much better.

Thanks! Again! B)

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Edited:

my vote is for the satin. & a brush should be fine, keep it thin but complete coverage, i think 2 coats will be fine. the minwax poly is easy to work with & provides great protection.

Everytime I think I am ready to apply poly, I stop and ponder some more because I know once I start, I am committed. I have prepped my staining area downstairs with plenty of ventilation, I removed as much dust as I could, and I plan to to use a spray bottle with water to mist the floor to keep dust down just before I apply the poly. And Satin it will be.

I think I need a last minute run to Lowes for a couple of paint brushes, some mineral spirits as suggested in the Minwax video directly upstream, and some 660 sandpaper for that very last minute wet sanding before the final coat.

Those videos make applying poly look easy because they use a tiny little board that is flat, face up, and perfectly prepped! I on the other hand, have 4 sides to work on. I am planning on applying poly on top, bottom and one side, let dry six hours, then turn and apply to the other side. Is this right, or do I need to have ALL sides face up when applying poly? That will take MUCH longer (like a week instead of 3-4 days, but I'll do whatever it takes to do this right. This finish has to last another 20 years. B)

Edited by wvu80
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You can apply poly the way you are planning. The key whether surfaces are face up or not is thin coats. Too much and you will get runs on vertical surfaces and pooling or uneven on the flat.

I might consider putting on a coat on the bottoms and then standing the speakers upright so you can work on the 3 glamor surfaces. Then when those are done, flip the speakers over to put a final finish on the bottoms. No one sees the bottoms but you want them sealed and protected in any case.

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My CF-2's were done in Black. I sanded both as much as I could. The red oak plywood final layer was about 1/16" think, so I could not have sanded through the final veneer. I hand applied the black satin poly and had rubbed it into the cabinet. It took a couple of weeks to sand and finish. I used damping material on the horns and polyfill to restuff the cabinets. I am going to redo them again since I had loaned them out while I was rebuilding a friends AR3a's. The largest complaints about the series was the horns overcoming the woofers. This time, I will be putting in L-Pads to be able to tone down the horns a little. Mine are Series 1 and the cabinets were in terrible shape. There was a raised area on the top due to water damage, so sanding it down to a smooth surface was my biggest concern. I was able to do so without getting into an inner ply. I should have stopped with two coats of the black poly as it gave the cabs a nice oak/black grained look. Runs are a problem, so you must go slow with thin coats as ryanm84 suggested. The factory sprayed the cabinets and the black finish really penetrated the wood. I am going to take mine back to were the oak still shows.

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RGB, what material did you use to damp the horns? I have seen everything from modeling clay, silicon caulk, to car dampening CLD panels, to rubberized spray.

Also, when you used the polyfil for the cabs, did you take out the foam that was already in there? Mine have loose layers of 2 pieces of foam along the sides and back.

I've just now started to put some familiar music through the speakers. I don't want to overdo it for fear of losing some dynamics clarity.

I know the sound of the drum and bugle corps genre (think professional jazz band, times ten times larger and louder), and I've stood in front of some DCI drum corps snare lines, and I'm telling you, these speakers come amazingly close to reproducing the sound of a LIVE 9-man drum corps snare line! For that, you need LOUD, and you need timbre to match the sound of the highly tensioned snare, you need dynamic overhead, and you need to hear the explosive CRACK when nine guys nail a rim shot. These speakers are there!

Blue Devils playing Burt Bacharach, one minute sampler. This will wake you up.

Edited by wvu80
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First coat applied; there's good news, and there's bad news.

The good news is that the poly went on with NO drama whatsoever. Approximate times were:

Worrying About Applying Poly-10 hours.

Actual Application of Poly: About 30 minutes. :D

Things went well because I was so well prepared by you guys, except for one thing, which I'll get to at the end. If anything I used too thin of a coat. The can says drying time is 2 hours. The poly was litterally sucked into the wood, and dried in about 10 minutes (72 degrees, little to no humidity). I held firm and resisted putting any more on there, but it dried really fast!

There was no or very little smell, so the wife is happy. What the wife is NOT happy about, is what you guys forgot to prepare me for; The Bird. :rolleyes:

I opened a window and left the screen part on, but this stupid bird squeezed BETWEEN the window and the screen and got into the house! My wife hates birds and is deathly afraid of them. Now I can't find the bird, and I am deathly afraid he will leave droplets on my newly refinished speakers!

You should have warned me about bird defense. I'm not blaming anybody, I'm just saying... :lol:B):P

Edited by wvu80
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