Moderators Youthman Posted April 12, 2014 Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2014 Looks like Emo has gotten into making receivers as well with their Fusion 8100 Receiver. I know wattage isn't everything but I wonder why they chose to only have 7 x 65 watts in this model? Just seems like the standard is around 100 watts. Anyone ever heard of The Fusion Advanced Room Correction System? Is that part of the ARC room correction software? I've heard of that and it says it has HDMI Output with ARC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 The Emotiva receiver is rated at 65 watts per channel with all channels driven, if you look at most receivers specs you will see their rated power is only with 2 channels driven, not all channels driven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I know wattage isn't everything but I wonder why they chose to only have 7 x 65 watts in this model? Just seems like the standard is around 100 watts. This is the Klipsch forum, 65 watts is about 50 watts too much. BTW, I have a pair of Emotiva Mini-X 50 watt amps, really nice, plenty of power. I use one for my garage system, the other is at work. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 12, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted April 12, 2014 Rich, most receiver spec I see online are rated with all channels driven. Again, I know wattage isn't everything but but even from a marketing standpoint, I would think the vast majority of users would choose a 100 watt equivalent receiver over a 65 watt. That's why companies began producing 110, 120, 130 and 140 watt receivers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Just seems like the standard is around 100 watts. Yes, it is, but again, falling on deaf ears for over 30 years running now and blue in the face as I type this: Horn guys need about 10 Watts maximum. Also we really need to think in DB WATTS!!!!!!!!! The difference between 65 and 100 watts is: 18.1 db Watts vs 20 db Watts, so a 1.9 db difference on a Khorn, Jubiliee, or my Quarter Pie Horn Stack is Zero, since I only use 0.010 (10 one thousandth of a watt for normal listening) and maybe 1/4 watt when cranking to ear bleed levels. 65 Watts would allow me to reach 128 db peaks without clipping, which is ridiculous except for the half deaf trying to kill the other half of their hearing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 I have to stand along with Claude for sure. I have truly down to wiring examined in detail what he speaks and is better than the truth. And Claudes only getting better imo You are correct youthman although vast majority consumer are not walking in to high end shops or even heard of emotiva let alone scope out emotivas first integrated unit. Likely will have a glitch or 2. Next versions likely yield better results than 1st. Very nice point. I am an hk marantz guy and used everything in between. I will say this emotiva receiver is giving me a big knot in my thinking cap. Nice thread youthman! I do agree with GotHover 110%. If i do switch receivers and this 8100 has at least front main preouts 699msrp should be had for $450 demo or open box maybe 550 nib. I am game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 "Again, I know wattage isn't everything but but even from a marketing standpoint, I would think the vast majority of users would choose a 100 watt equivalent receiver over a 65 watt. That's why companies began producing 110, 120, 130 and 140 watt receivers .".......Youthman Yes, and it's ALL marketing BS on the part of receiver makers. Time for those yellow buttons again. When converted to DB WATTS, they are +20.4, 20.7, 21.13, and 21.46 DB Watts respectively so the difference betwen 110 and 140 is a lousy 1.06 db difference in power output. No one would EVER notice when listening to real world program material. But NO! (like John Belushi used to say), the BS just keeps on propagating in the catalogs and everywhere on the Web. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 They could easily list it 80wpc. 65wpc to an in tune audiophile sounds so much better. If they were to had listed it as 50wpc i would likely be more game to buy it. my marantz 1402 at 50wpc is very nice and was extremely appealing listed at 50wpc. The standard 100wpc listing in the audio economy pushes me away instantly, it has for my entire life. especially considering they end up being the worst(most bad)20 watts you ever heard. regardless an integrated emotiva is going to be on the shortlist of every audiophile soon just to try. imo this is great. emo is so much better with heritage than anthem, once again my opinion 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) Rich, most receiver spec I see online are rated with all channels driven. The way most receivers are advertised it would seem that way, but when you look at the detailed specs. Amplifier Section Power Output Front L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 160 W + 160 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 17¡èîP301utputX¹ñP701plyöè) Center 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 160 W + 160 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 17¡èîP301utputX¹ñP701plyöè) Surround L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 160 W + 160 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 17¡èîP301utputX¹ñP701plyöè) Surround Back L/R 140 W + 140 W (8 ohms, 20 Hz20 kHz, 0.05%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 160 W + 160 W (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.7%, 2 channels driven, FTC) 170 W + 17¡èîP301utputX¹ñP701plyöè) From TX-SR876 spec sheet see below http://www.onkyousa.com/Products/model.php?m=TX-SR876&class=Receiver&source=prodClass Note: Separate stand alone amps are normally rated with all channels driven. Edited April 12, 2014 by Rich_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I knew that thing looked familiar. Edited April 12, 2014 by willland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 well, i'll be darned. i never knew although might had guessed there is a marriage of sorts there. interesting to say the least 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest David H Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 (edited) I knew that thing looked familiar. Oh look, it has more power. LOL The SR-8100 is a 7.1 receiver that is targeted squarely at the consumer that wants a high end product that worries more about audio than making sure it works with your phone. The SR-8100 features a 450VA power supply and a proprietary short signal path Class A/B amplifier topology. It puts out 80 watts x 7 into 8 ohms with all channels driven. That's a bit scary... Good eye. Dave Edited April 12, 2014 by GotHover Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beeker Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Ah ha. Thanks so much for the side by side Dave. I really appreciate it. I was about to look up the other direction and if were cheap order...nice catch. Cheers! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted April 12, 2014 Share Posted April 12, 2014 Youth, ARC in this instance is know as audio return channel. Most receivers now have it. It has to do with sound coming from your tv right back to avr without running multiple cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 Youth when you see AV receivers advertised they usually refer to their specs as watts per channel, for instance the Harmon Kardon AVR 3700 is 125 watts per channel. However this does not mean with all channels driven, if you go into the detailed specs you will see this is almost always with only 2 channels being driven. For instance here are the specs for the Harman Kardon AVR 3700SPECIFICATIONSAudio Section•Stereo mode continuous average power: 125 watts/ch, 20Hz – 20kHz,<0.07% THD, both channels driven @ 8 ohms, 6-ohm certified•Multichannel power: 125 watts/ch, 20Hz – 20kHz, <0.07% THD,two channels driven @ 8 ohms, 6-ohm certified From link below (note: you need to click on the Product Specs drop down and then click on the SPEC SHEET) http://www.harmankardon.com/estore/hk/us/products/AVR-3700/AVR%203700_HK_US?skuId=AVR%203700_HK_US&searchMode=regularProductOnly&sCatId=cat370041 This method is how most AV receivers do their specs because the watts per channel will appear to be higher than if they listed the all channels driven specs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Pretty sure youth was just saying he's surprised they went small for marketing them against other brands. To the normal buyer they will see 65 watts and not even give it a second look was his point I think (not to speak for him Edited April 13, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted April 13, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted April 13, 2014 Thx Scrappy. I thought ARC was a new room correction. I was wrong. Thx for the info. That makes more since why they would add it to HDMI line. Rich, maybe I'm thinking the "norm" is what I saw with my HK aVR3600 and previous Yamaha 1800 HK 3600 specs say Multichannel Power (all channels driven) (Front L & R channels)- 85 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz–20kHz into 8 ohms (Center channel) 85 Watts @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz–20kHz into 8 ohms (Surround (L & R Side, L & R Back) channels)- 85 Watts per channel @ <0.07% THD, 20Hz–20kHz into 8 ohms - See more at: http://www.harmankardon.com/estore/hk/us/support/spdp.jsp?pid=AVR%203600#sthash.ePilnqAL.dpuf Yamaha 1800 specs say RMS Power (8 ohms, 20Hz-20kHz) [THD] 130W x 7 [0.04%] Maybe that is not the norm Reference are spot on in your assessment of why I stated what I said. To me I would think that that marketing wise it would be a good idea to produce a receiver that is 100 W per channel or more. My guess is they will produce other receivers in the near future that will be the slowing down to charge even more for those "features" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich_Guy Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 (edited) Your Harmon Kardon is definitely rated as specs for all channels driven, that's one reason it is only rated at 85 watts per channel , your Yamaha does not say but my bet is it is rated with only 2 channels driven as almost all receivers are. I think Emotiva rated their new receiver all channels driven as it has been one of their advertising points all along with their amps, Emotiva has always stated that their amps are rated with "all channels driven" compared to receivers which normally aren't rated this way so even though the watts per channel may sound the same it's actually not. Also I think Emotiva's new receiver is intended as more of a lower priced starting level product, so it has lower power. Edited April 13, 2014 by Rich_Guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trentster5172 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 I'm excited to get mine! I will be replacing a Yamaha RX-V2500 that has been a powerhouse rated at 130 watts per channel. That being said it was tested by Sound and Vision as actually having 158 watts at 0.1% distortion back in 2004 or 2005. Once driving five channels it was rated at 64 watts per channel, and I'm sure it's much lower when driving all seven like it has been for the last several years in my theater. My decision was between the Marantz 7008,the Denon 4520ci, and the Emotiva Fusion 8100. Sound and Vision tested the 7008 at 2 channels driven at 122 watts at 0.1% distortion, 101 watts driving five channels, and 68 watts driving all seven. This little Fusion is pretty much going to run 110 watts per channel when driving 2 channels at 0.05% distortion and the rated 65 watts per channel driving all 7 at 0.05% distortion basically matching the Marantz. What sealed the deal for me was my first Emotiva product that arrived four weeks ago, an XPA-3 Gen 2, to drive my three front speakers (RF-7 II's and an RF-64 II). I've been running it with the Yamaha as a preamp then using the Yamaha as an amp to drive the surrounds. This is exactly how I will have it configured with the Fusion. Based on the reviews of the UMC-200, I'm expecting it to spank the Marantz and Denon in terms of headroom and sound quality. I've tracked it and it's sitting at my local UPS waiting for delivery. Unfortunately I have to leave town on business until Wednesday so no playing until then. This was a tough decision for me especially since I have a hook to get the Marantz and Denon stuff through a part time job/hookup for a great price! Not to mention the build quality of probably the last Denon built in Japan. I was sold on my Oppo BDP-83SE years ago and I think Emotiva is throwing down this type of performance/sound quality. Even though my XPA is built in China (and my Oppo too), I'm seeing the quality that we have seen come out of Japan. If my Fusion has that build quality I will be nothing but impressed and satisfied. I post now because the jury is out for me as well- I'll keep you posted! Trent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trentster5172 Posted April 13, 2014 Share Posted April 13, 2014 If I really like what I hear I will strongly consider their new XMC-1, since I will have a discount card, an XPA-5 Gen 2 and a couple of their new XPA-1L Gen 2 mono blocks for the RF-7 II's next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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