RF 7II's Have (4)10's But Where's the Low End Weight?

[Codyred]

I've used the RF7 II's with powerful amps but they just aren't hefty in the low end based on the size of the cabinets and 4 ten inch woofers. I had a Harman Kardon HK 990 connected after disconnecting a NAD M2 amp. Both of these are powerful. The HK doubles its power as the ohms decrease- 150 into 8 ohms, 300 into 4 ohms.

Is it just that these huge cabinets and 10in woofers that are supposed to be sensitive speakers are designed to push all the amp power through those tractix horns with little power going to woofers?

Which 2 channel amp (not a receiver) are you using that pushes solid bass with these? I remember reading in this forum where someone said his RF7 II's sounded like he was using a subwoofer with them and he wasn't. I'm not getting that kind of bass foundation from these.

[derrickdj1]

Almost any power amp of 125-200 watts should be sufficient to drive the speakers. If you need deeper bass,, consider a subwoofer.

[Codyred]

Almost any power amp of 125-200 watts should be sufficient to drive the speakers. If you need deeper bass,, consider a subwoofer.

That's fine, thanks for the response. But you don't own the II's. Do you have first hand experience with them? The 7's you have are not the same.

I already have subwoofers, and feel that these speakers in and of themselves should be sufficient based on the the size of the cabinets and the woofers. But with their design maybe they're just not a capable producer of solid bass even with 10's. I'm not asking for "tear down the walls" bass, just a solid bass foundation. My curiosity centers around the amp-speaker match which is all about synergy. Without a good amp-speaker match, I am fully aware that no one gets the best performance that any speaker has to offer. At their best, I wonder if more low end can be had, or if the 7II's are just not capable of it.

Maybe there's an amp that can get better performance than the 2 integrateds I've used, but maybe not. Anyone heard the 7II's move air without the help of a subwoofer? My room is 8X18X8 family room with the speakers on one of ths short walls and no options for placement other than about 1.5 feet from the front wall and 5 feet apart.

Edited April 13, 2014 by Codyred

[willland]

While I don't have the RF-7II's, I know either of these amps do offer quite a bit of low end grunt to drive those 4-10" woofers.

Acurus A200------used $325 to $400(Youthman has one and is very pleased)

Acurus A250------used $275 to $375

Aragon 4004------used $500 to $700

Aragon 8008BB--used $900 to $1100

Aragon 8008ST---used $800 to $1000

Anthem P2--------used $1500 to $2000

Anthem MCA-20--used $500 to $700(JTubbs has one and is very pleased)

I am surprised that your NAD M2 doesn't do the trick for you.

Bill

[Heritage_Head]

I've used the RF7 II's with powerful amps but they just aren't hefty in the low end based on the size of the cabinets and 4 ten inch woofers. I had a Harman Kardon HK 990 connected after disconnecting a NAD M2 amp. Both of these are powerful. The HK doubles its power as the ohms decrease- 150 into 8 ohms, 300 into 4 ohms.

Is it just that these huge cabinets and 10in woofers that are supposed to be sensitive speakers are designed to push all the amp power through those tractix horns with little power going to woofers?

Which 2 channel amp (not a receiver) are you using that pushes solid bass with these? I remember reading in this forum where someone said his RF7 II's sounded like he was using a subwoofer with them and he wasn't. I'm not getting that kind of bass foundation from these.

When you crank the volume do the drivers barley move? If so EQ the bass up and get them to move a bit. They well pound.

[Heritage_Head]

Almost any power amp of 125-200 watts should be sufficient to drive the speakers. If you need deeper bass,, consider a subwoofer.

That's fine, thanks for the response. But you don't own the II's. Do you have first hand experience with them? The 7's you have are not the same.

I already have subwoofers, and feel that these speakers in and of themselves should be sufficient based on the the size of the cabinets and the woofers. But with their design maybe they're just not a capable producer of solid bass even with 10's. I'm not asking for "tear down the walls" bass, just a solid bass foundation. My curiosity centers around the amp-speaker match which is all about synergy. Without a good amp-speaker match, I am fully aware that no one gets the best performance that any speaker has to offer. At their best, I wonder if more low end can be had, or if the 7II's are just not capable of it.

Maybe there's an amp that can get better performance than the 2 integrateds I've used, but maybe not. Anyone heard the 7II's move air without the help of a subwoofer? My room is 8X18X8 family room with the speakers on one of ths short walls and no options for placement other than about 1.5 feet from the front wall and 5 feet apart.

They can move a ton of air. Set up is everything and my experience has been similar until i eq the bass up. Those's big ports in back will push a lot of air when they are turned up. Build a smily face with the eq (bass high mid down a bit and highs at about zero)

Edited April 13, 2014 by reference_head

[Codyred]

Almost any power amp of 125-200 watts should be sufficient to drive the speakers. If you need deeper bass,, consider a subwoofer.

That's fine, thanks for the response. But you don't own the II's. Do you have first hand experience with them? The 7's you have are not the same.

I already have subwoofers, and feel that these speakers in and of themselves should be sufficient based on the the size of the cabinets and the woofers. But with their design maybe they're just not a capable producer of solid bass even with 10's. I'm not asking for "tear down the walls" bass, just a solid bass foundation. My curiosity centers around the amp-speaker match which is all about synergy. Without a good amp-speaker match, I am fully aware that no one gets the best performance that any speaker has to offer. At their best, I wonder if more low end can be had, or if the 7II's are just not capable of it.

Maybe there's an amp that can get better performance than the 2 integrateds I've used, but maybe not. Anyone heard the 7II's move air without the help of a subwoofer? My room is 8X18X8 family room with the speakers on one of ths short walls and no options for placement other than about 1.5 feet from the front wall and 5 feet apart.

They can move a ton of air. Set up is everything and my experience has been similar until i eq the bass up. Those's big ports in back will push a lot of air when they are turned up. Build a smily face with the eq (bass high mid down a bit and highs at about zero)

Don't have an EQ accept the bad EQ function in the HK990 and the ITunes EQ when the Macbook Pro is used as my source. I don't care for either of those EQ functions. A quality integrated with bass and treble tone controls would be very useful but most of them are quite expensive. (i.e. Luxman, Accuphase, McIntosh).

Edited April 13, 2014 by Codyred

[Heritage_Head]

The umc1 as an example has a great onboard eq. They only cost about 250 on the used market. Something to try just to see if that gets you what your looking for without going crazy on better amps.

[Heritage_Head]

My pio elite sc55 also has a pretty nice eq on it. Not as nice as the umc1 eq though.

Edited April 13, 2014 by reference_head

[Ski Bum]

You don't need more than the HK990 or NAD M3 can provide, either one is more than adequate in terms of power, unless your room is ginormous.

As suggested, eq is your friend. Try the "tilt" control on the NAD which simply applies a gentle downward slope across whole audible spectrum (which happens to coincide with what lots of folks find pleasing and may be just the ticket).

Don't overlook the influence of the room, altering placement to increase cabin gain/boundary reinforcement.

Don't apply eq boost below 30 hz. It won't help, and by doing so you risk exceeding the drivers mechanical limits and damage.

[Heritage_Head]

I found this pic of the emo eq

[Heritage_Head]

In the video you can see them pound. Are yours pushing like this? 20:22 Klipsch RF7 MKII + XTZ Class100D3 + XTZ CD100 + Viablue by TheKlipscher 6,959 views

[Codyred]

You don't need more than the HK990 or NAD M3 can provide, either one is more than adequate in terms of power, unless your room is ginormous.

As suggested, eq is your friend. Try the "tilt" control on the NAD which simply applies a gentle downward slope across whole audible spectrum (which happens to coincide with what lots of folks find pleasing and may be just the ticket).

Don't overlook the influence of the room, altering placement to increase cabin gain/boundary reinforcement.

Don't apply eq boost below 30 hz. It won't help, and by doing so you risk exceeding the drivers mechanical limits and damage. T

The NAD M2 does not have "tilt" you're referring to the NAD M3 I think.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Codyred

[Codyred]

In the video you can see them pound. Are yours pushing like this? 20:22 Klipsch RF7 MKII + XTZ Class100D3 + XTZ CD100 + Viablue by TheKlipscher 6,959 views

Thanks for the video. No, mine do not push like that, but then too I listen to hard bop jazz mostly recorded in the 50's with upright bass and bass drum being the primary bass point. These recordings, I know have much less bass power. However, bass foundation is still present in the majority of the recordings and that's what I like to hear.

[Codyred]

The umc1 as an example has a great onboard eq. They only cost about 250 on the used market. Something to try just to see if that gets you what your looking for without going crazy on better amps.

So my take away from your posts and the others in the thread is that the RF7 II's have to have EQ in the bass region or tone controls in order to produce the bass that 4 ten inch woofers in big cabinets would usually be expected to do. Without EQ in the bass, unless you're playing modern recordings that have more low end, you won't get the low end expected of a sensitive speaker as big as these.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Codyred

[TasDom]

My 7II's put out a tremendous amount of bass. I was playing around the other day when hooking up some Belle's and experimented with the 7's somewhat.

I set to full range / large, disabled all other speakers and told the onkyo no subs. Ran them in stereo mode and I was shocked just how much bass they were producing. I even had to check the subs a couple of times to make sure they weren't active.

[Ski Bum]

So my take away from your posts and the others in the thread is that the RF7 II's have to have EQ in the bass region or tone controls in order to produce the bass that 4 ten inch woofers in big cabinets would usually be expected to do.

While it's not a sin to forego it, all rooms/systems benefit from eq.

If your expectations are not being met and you want to find out why, you need to dig deeper. You should expect powerful response down to 40 hz give or take from your four 10" woofs. They are exceptionally capable at frequencies above that. When it comes to bass, the room dominates your system's response. Have you assessed your situation with any sort of RTA gear to get a better grasp of what's going on? How large is the room, volume in cubic feet (including the volume of any contiguous open areas)?

[CECAA850]

No, mine do not push like that, but then too I listen to hard bop jazz mostly recorded in the 50's with upright bass and bass drum being the primary bass point.

Your speakers are not going to pound unless your source does.

[Codyred]

So my take away from your posts and the others in the thread is that the RF7 II's have to have EQ in the bass region or tone controls in order to produce the bass that 4 ten inch woofers in big cabinets would usually be expected to do.

While it's not a sin to forego it, all rooms/systems benefit from eq.

If your expectations are not being met and you want to find out why, you need to dig deeper. You should expect powerful response down to 40 hz give or take from your four 10" woofs. They are exceptionally capable at frequencies above that. When it comes to bass, the room dominates your system's response. Have you assessed your situation with any sort of RTA gear to get a better grasp of what's going on? How large is the room, volume in cubic feet (including the volume of any contiguous open areas)?

So my take away from your posts and the others in the thread is that the RF7 II's have to have EQ in the bass region or tone controls in order to produce the bass that 4 ten inch woofers in big cabinets would usually be expected to do.

While it's not a sin to forego it, all rooms/systems benefit from eq.

If your expectations are not being met and you want to find out why, you need to dig deeper. You should expect powerful response down to 40 hz give or take from your four 10" woofs. They are exceptionally capable at frequencies above that. When it comes to bass, the room dominates your system's response. Have you assessed your situation with any sort of RTA gear to get a better grasp of what's going on? How large is the room, volume in cubic feet (including the volume of any contiguous open areas)?

T

No, mine do not push like that, but then too I listen to hard bop jazz mostly recorded in the 50's with upright bass and bass drum being the primary bass point.

Your speakers are not going to pound unless your source does.

I don't need/want the speaker's bass to pound, but they should provide a solid bass foundation even to hard bop.

[LarryC]

I wonder, are you talking about deep, chest-thumping bass, or a fuller body of sound, like you might get in the next octave or two above the bottommost notes?

It seems like some are talking primarily about the bottommost notes, more than the very full-bodied sound you might get from the Cornwall I or II. For my taste, earlier Reference models seemed to leave a bit of a hole in the lower middle range, between the deep bass and true middle range. JMHO, and I don't expect many to agree.

Edited April 14, 2014 by LarryC