jimjimbo Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I know this may be difficult, but I'm fishing for some relatively objective opinions here...Another subject in my Heritage education.... I realize that the "value" of any item is what the buyer will pay, and what the "general market" will support, but, having said that, I'm wondering....When is a Cornwall no longer a Cornwall? or La Scala, or Heresy, or whatever? Is "all original" that important anymore? Replacing or recapping the crossovers, replacing drivers and/or entire horns..Adding braces, adding damping material, etc, etc....Even though many of the "upgrades" that can be made may well be very close to the original specs, and "sound" very similar (each to his own...) at some point it seems that the speaker just becomes....a cabinet....maybe with consecutive serial numbers, but, what does that matter anymore after significant replacements? I know, the question could be asked, "Are you going to keep them for your own use, or are you planning on someday reselling?" Well, perhaps both, I'm not sure, but I suppose I would like to know how I might be affecting the resale and historical value by making adjustments. For example, just from a simple monetary perspective, I could send my woofers out to be re-coned and repaired for anywhere between $75 - $100 each. Then factor in shipping both ways for those heavy dudes, and we're at a minimum of about $200. Then, compare that with a couple of on line resources where you could purchase a new replacement pair, that are the equal if not better in performance, for between $225 and $300, including drivers, including shipping. OK, so I replace them with the new....are they still Cornwalls? And please, I'm only asking, certainly not professing to actually know or to say yea or nay....just a point of interest I guess, and wondering what much more knowledgeable folks on the forum have to say. Thanks for being patient with my rhetorical meanderings.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Only parts that are faulty, or out of SPEC, need to be replaced. Oil Can Type Capacitors can leak PCBs, which is toxic, so need to be replaced (re-capped). They are found in older Heresy, Cornwall, La Scala, Belle & Klipschorn, et Cetera. Other than that, I plan to keep mine as close to factory spec as possible; &, for the most part I follow the old "If it's working, don't fix it." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 In certain cases, I'll retain the original parts, if replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) I know this may be difficult, but I'm fishing for some relatively objective opinions here...Another subject in my Heritage education.... I realize that the "value" of any item is what the buyer will pay, and what the "general market" will support, but, having said that, I'm wondering....When is a Cornwall no longer a Cornwall? or La Scala, or Heresy, or whatever? Is "all original" that important anymore? Replacing or recapping the crossovers, replacing drivers and/or entire horns..Adding braces, adding damping material, etc, etc....Even though many of the "upgrades" that can be made may well be very close to the original specs, and "sound" very similar (each to his own...) at some point it seems that the speaker just becomes....a cabinet....maybe with consecutive serial numbers, but, what does that matter anymore after significant replacements? I know, the question could be asked, "Are you going to keep them for your own use, or are you planning on someday reselling?" Well, perhaps both, I'm not sure, but I suppose I would like to know how I might be affecting the resale and historical value by making adjustments. For example, just from a simple monetary perspective, I could send my woofers out to be re-coned and repaired for anywhere between $75 - $100 each. Then factor in shipping both ways for those heavy dudes, and we're at a minimum of about $200. Then, compare that with a couple of on line resources where you could purchase a new replacement pair, that are the equal if not better in performance, for between $225 and $300, including drivers, including shipping. OK, so I replace them with the new....are they still Cornwalls? And please, I'm only asking, certainly not professing to actually know or to say yea or nay....just a point of interest I guess, and wondering what much more knowledgeable folks on the forum have to say. Thanks for being patient with my rhetorical meanderings.... jimjimbo, Think of your speaker as a car, original equipement brings a certain price. Although through Hot Rodding a car, we can significantly improve it's performance, such as a blown Pro Streeter, the market size dwindles on the amount of people who know how to tinker or even want to drive the pro streeter. The same is true of speakers!! Hearing is subjective! Although certain mods may sound better to your ears, they may not sound better to someone else's ears. Think of it this way, you've got a supercharged red Camaro that is tubbed for sale, but Joe wanted his Camaro Yellow, and Jim wants a Supercharged Red Pro Streeter but he wanted a Mustang! Similarly, one guy may want the Crites Woofer, but not want your crossover. The next guy wants your Crites Woofer and crossover, but doesn't want your Titanium Tweeter, and the guy who does want all of your mods, also knows that there are less people in the market to buy your speaker, and he is going to Low Ball you with offers because he knows you are not going to get your money for it! Then you run into the second problem that a lot of people know what a Klipschorn, La Scala, Belle, Cornwall, or Heresy sound like, but they have know idea what a modified version sounds like, and they are not going to fork out the bucks to buy one to find out without hearing it play or hearing it next to an original, so once again you are limiting your resale market. And finally, who wants to pay as much or more for a pair of Hot Rodded Cornwalls, as they could have been into a nice original used set of La Scalas or even Klipschorns??? My personal belief is that while it is ok to recap or recone a speaker, changing out driver brands, aftermarket crossovers, and extra bracing hurt the value of a speaker. The only major modification that would interest me is a really good veneer job with something like Brazilian Rosewood, Bubbinga, or Koa, but then again, there are other people who would want Ebony or Zebra Wood, and a smaller market of people who would pay for those veneers, so you are back in the same old boat! I hope this helps you with your original questions! Rog Edited April 14, 2014 by twistedcrankcammer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Recently inquiring about a pair of speakers that had the original tweeters & crossovers replaced with Crites. That is a fine upgrade; but, they gave away the original tweeters & threw away the original crossovers, therefore, decreasing the resale value. Whereas, had they kept the original parts, a future buyer could have them re-built &/or sell them &/or the Crites parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) This begs your question; did you see the Super Klipschorns for sale, by Texas42? With $2,000 in mods, there is nothing stock about those, including the name! For $4200, would you buy his Super Klipschorn, or would you buy new for close to the same amount? If I were a collector, I would NOT buy them, because there is nothing left of original but the box. But if I wanted to listen and enjoy them, I would buy them in a flash! I guess it depends on who you are and what your purpose is with having them. I'd buy them. Edited April 14, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 New pair MSRP for Klipschorns is $9000. Around here, you can pick up 2 pair, pre-listened, for $4200; but, they sure are nice. Gonna be a hard sell, though; unless he finds someone who wants all or most of his mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) my 2 cents. i would buy 2 new 15" woofers from crites before i would get mine reconed and then just keep the originals and at a later date get them reconed and then you could compare the sound and use which ones you like best Edited April 15, 2014 by Budman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 my 2 cents. i would buy 2 new 15" woofers from crites before i would get mine reconed and then just keep the originals and at a later date get them reconed and then you could compare the sound and use which ones you like best as far as buying some used heritage the condition of the veneer ( must be consec serial numbers ) ( not oak or black ) is the most important to me, upgraded crossovers from Crites/Dean would be a plus. Crites woofers and tweetes a plus. no midrange horn swaps for me. pie slice logos first, laser second as a matter of fact over the weekend i just made a road trip and bought a one owner set of 77 heresys ( WO ) with original shipping boxes built for a klipsch employee. STUNNING CONDITION No pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheric Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) My personal belief is that while it is ok to recap or recone a speaker, changing out driver brands, aftermarket crossovers, and extra bracing hurt the value of a speaker. That is a fine upgrade; but, they gave away the original tweeters & threw away the original crossovers, therefore, decreasing the resale value. Whereas, had they kept the original parts, a future buyer could have them re-built &/or sell them &/or the Crites parts. If I were a collector, I would NOT buy them, because there is nothing left of original but the box. These are my thoughts, exactly. I would prefer to keep things original. Klipsch speakers have survived for decades because of their excellent original designs. Alternatively, you can always build a "Heresy X" with any after market parts, just don't call it Klipsch speaker. Edited April 14, 2014 by cheric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) sorry, no pics Edited April 15, 2014 by Budman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul29 Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Good idea: Yes who is willing to sell me his Bob's tweeters and Bob's crossover or new Autotransfomers -choke out of a Heresy ...you can call me any time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 (edited) I've never really heard the term Klipsch Heritage and Collectable in the same sentence... we don't partake in this passion because of rarity, we do this because of performance and allegiance. I would imagine there are collectable klipsch speakers, as a matter of fact I am sure there are... but the vast majority are just production units that deliver superb performance at GREAT PRICING decades after inception. sometimes these old fellows need a little refreshing to achieve past greatness... sometimes they can be made to out perform there original specifications with the benefit of time and modern technology. Edited April 14, 2014 by Schu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 Other than it sounding good, this is another reason why I'm a big fan of the K510/402 atop a LaScala type bass bin. It's all Klipsch, sounds fantastic and has been fully engineered in their chamber. Of the competing upgrades, I'd personally go for the larger throated versions (now that I've heard some of the differences) All that said... I'll be biamping one LaScala (with 510 on top) and my original pair are bone stock (down to diaphragms) from 1979.... other than swapping out for Al's ES networks. I didn't sell my old AA's, I actually gave them away. Since I'm not selling them while I'm breathing, I don't care about the AA's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted April 14, 2014 Share Posted April 14, 2014 I have replaced my crossovers, midrange drivers, and tweeter diaphragms on my forte II. I never plan on parting with them, however I kept all of my original parts. So they can be returned to stock at any time. Bought new back in the day, spring of '92. Anyway never heard another speaker, Klipsch or whoever that has impressed me enough to part with my beloved forte II. Best regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twistedcrankcammer Posted April 15, 2014 Share Posted April 15, 2014 I have replaced my crossovers, midrange drivers, and tweeter diaphragms on my forte II. I never plan on parting with them, however I kept all of my original parts. So they can be returned to stock at any time. Bought new back in the day, spring of '92. Anyway never heard another speaker, Klipsch or whoever that has impressed me enough to part with my beloved forte II. Best regards, John John, You've obviously never heard Jubilees. Roger 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Chi-town Posted April 16, 2014 Share Posted April 16, 2014 Roger; That is the only speaker in the Heritage lineup that I have never had the opportunity to hear. Best regards, John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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