Youthman's First Heritage Speakers...the LaScalas

[MichaelandKlipsch]

Next youth will be grabbing one of these off a craigslist deal for a few hundred bucks. Heck they will probably throw in some free speakers or cabling and probably take him to dinner with his luck! Love the guy though and happy to see him with those in his theater. I gotta make it down there soon

[beeker]

with music all i can say is my belle rf7ii comparison lasted an hour if that. for theater with rc64ii center with both rf7ii and belle comparison it was interesting. the belle setup with rc64ii cleaned house very fast. at that point i simply was drawn to heritage for both music and theater. the heresy to me is superb as center as well as surround duty. i prefer newer pro heresy ported design to the 3, heresy, ii or 3 although all heresy in upstanding working condition work extremely well.

thats what im limited to on personal use with what i find to be true. i have not used much larger mcm jubilee or other pro gear. i just know for a fact that the sweet heritage sound(or heritage based, heresy in particular)with good networks,drivers and proper enclosure are very tough on any comparison with klipsch reference.

I also will add the rf83 in my opinion for both music and theater provide greater performance than the rf7&rf7ii in stock form with use of a subwoofer.

beeker,

I had Klipschorns and La Scalas for my system, then

Then I bought two Tscms which are the Pro Version of the Klipschorn. Now I own 7 TSCMs and I never looked back. If you ever have a chance to listen to Jubilees, they sound even better, and the K 402, K 69 sounds even better atop a pair of MWM bins like Eldon has. That is why I am giving one of the 9 MWM bins I owned to Kevin Harmon, for center channel Duty between his Jubilees and KPT-684s.

Roger

Absolutely. I am on the fringe peaking in. Have heard everything except the mcm setup. I do not have room at the moment and have a couple invites at the moment to demo other large gear including mcm's although room is the factor i face even in the new home i am preparing to move in to.

I am onboard with the facts of large total horn setups although finding so much more power and personal positive views on direct subwoofer radiating as well as direct radiating bass frequency in 3 way setups. I have read, seen numbers and understand distortion and quite a lot although have to say i am in harmony at the moment with direct radiating woofers. Please dont get me wrong. 3 way horn setups let alone 4 way are mighty impressive although i am in particular with small room getting so much out of simple direct radiation. My radian audio 18's with my chorus 2 klipsch theater setup is truly on par with anything i have heard, total surround. My front soundstage is perfect as is my surround. I would not even consider trading for anything i have ever heard and i have heard nearly everything.

[The Dude]

I'm assuming with a cornscala, you actually build the cabinet yourself and move the driver from the folded horn design to a front ported design? Is that correct?

Yup, don't worry we have ways around here to get you fixed up.

[Youthman]

Well, we are all excited for you . . . you give so much to the forum.

Thx Rhetor, I know the forum has been a HUGE blessing to me over the past few years. Glad to finally be able to contribute something hopefully of value.

It's been a great Friday thread to read and keep up with at work I love this forum.

Glad to know I'm keeping you from being productive at work today.

One question. When you look inside the back into the HF section of the LS, do they look like the old oval tin-looking caps, or do they look new? (Someone may have saved you the trouble.) Even better, snap a quick pic when you can.

Oval tin cans.....looks totally original...very Old School Nastalgic Looking Crossovers

If you have the space to run dual subs and can find another RSW-15 (great sub by the way!), I think it'll help the bass response considerably. No

Yes, I have room for dual RSW-15's and would like to pick another one up down the road but honestly, the single RSW-15 is plenty to provide the low end for the LaScalas. I sold my Dual Velodyne HGS15 (15" with 1250/3000 amp) when I bought the RSW-15 because it sounded as good as having (2) Velodyne HGS15's.

I started to like the bass of the LS II's as drums did sound more life like to me.

Toms sound good on the LaScalas, it's the Kick Drum that sounds hollow and not enough impact for my taste. Again, the RSW-15 takes care of that so no worries.

But in the end it's whatever makes Youthmans ears happy is what he should do, the model, size, shape or age should not matter (if it fits into your setup) . It's really that simple, when you turn down the lights and watch a movie or music it's all that counts, that was the original goal and it shouldn't change. imo

THAT'S RIGHT! Tell em dtel. I ain't here to impress none of you guys! I was talking to wakejunkie on the phone this morning and I told him my goal is just that, to have the best sound I can have in the room. If that means bigger, old school speakers, so be it. Sound should come before aesthetics.

[dtel]

THAT'S RIGHT! Tell em dtel. I ain't here to impress none of you guys! I was talking to wakejunkie on the phone this morning and I told him my goal is just that, to have the best sound I can have in the room. If that means bigger, old school speakers, so be it. Sound should come before aesthetics.

Glad to see you have not left your original goal, because when you first got into this audio stuff it was for better sound, why stop now, sound first. I do understand in a living or more of a family room aesthetics have to be considered but in a dedicated HT room where they possibly can't even be seen, style doesn't count.

Whatever you decide sounds best for you is best for you, what else matters, guest will be blown away either way ! And I would bet Mrs.Youth just wants YOU happy with whatever you do in that room.

[beeker]

I must ad the best sound for 1 is not for the other no matter who you ask, basically.

To elaborate a bit on horn bass and direct radiating sure horn subs go bet together with low frequency horns. Direct woofers are better with direct radiating subs.

I completely prefer a direct radiating woofer and or sub. I could continue but prefer to leave it at that.

[NBPK402]

I must ad the best sound for 1 is not for the other no matter who you ask, basically.

To elaborate a bit on horn bass and direct radiating sure horn subs go bet together with low frequency horns. Direct woofers are better with direct radiating subs.

I completely prefer a direct radiating woofer and or sub. I could continue but prefer to leave it at that.

I thought you were blown away by Claudes 1/4 pies...

[beeker]

You know i was. On the other hand to listen to the 402 alone with a direct radiating woofer or 2 i would be even more content. I enjoyed his whole system. I appreciate the boombox jamming on the street corner as well as limited produced conrad johnson or krell gear driving imported speakers that i never heard of before. It truly is the material...not the speaker nor anything else.

I understand all the graphs and have read and understood so much more since even the last week after listening to the claude quarter pie as well as his dual danleys. Now at home with my direct 18's and surround sound using heresys not even my chorus which are in the room watching many films i pull hard for direct radiation.

There is a delay with subs in subwoofer designs i do not like no matter how efficient due to horns slower dispersion as well as low frequency woofers in 3 way speakers. Quality direct radiating bass in my opinion is better than the delay in a low frequency horn.

Instant bass(direct radiating) is better than waiting for 3, 5, 20 foot of bass traveling through a horn all in my opinion as well as a dozen others i have discussed this with in the past week after my goal was to listen to the 402's-1, 2 the danleys and yes the quarter pies better than a khorn or parallel to jubilee(id compare it to a jubilee way more than a khorn). The jubilee or quarter pie with a 402 and danleys once you would be acustomed to them may draw you in very tight. I prefer tuning my bass instantly...

[NBPK402]

You know i was. On the other hand to listen to the 402 alone with a direct radiating woofer or 2 i would be even more content. I enjoyed his whole system. I appreciate the boombox jamming on the street corner as well as limited produced conrad johnson or krell gear driving imported speakers that i never heard of before. It truly is the material...not the speaker nor anything else.

I understand all the graphs and have read and understood so much more since even the last week after listening to the claude quarter pie as well as his dual danleys. Now at home with my direct 18's and surround sound using heresys not even my chorus which are in the room watching many films i pull hard for direct radiation.

There is a delay with subs in subwoofer designs i do not like no matter how efficient due to horns slower dispersion as well as low frequency woofers in 3 way speakers. Quality direct radiating bass in my opinion is better than the delay in a low frequency horn.

Instant bass(direct radiating) is better than waiting for 3, 5, 20 foot of bass traveling through a horn all in my opinion as well as a dozen others i have discussed this with in the past week after my goal was to listen to the 402's-1, 2 the danleys and yes the quarter pies better than a khorn or parallel to jubilee(id compare it to a jubilee way more than a khorn). The jubilee or quarter pie with a 402 and danleys once you would be acustomed to them may draw you in very tight. I prefer tuning my bass instantly...

Wouldn't adjusting the time delay take care of that... Or is there more to it than that?

[Rhetor]

One question. When you look inside the back into the HF section of the LS, do they look like the old oval tin-looking caps, or do they look new? (Someone may have saved you the trouble.) Even better, snap a quick pic when you can.

Oval tin cans.....looks totally original...very Old School Nastalgic Looking Crossovers

Yup, those are the original old caps. They are great looking with the old caps. Lucky for me none of mine had leaked before or after I bought each Heritage speaker with those in them. I really did not want to replace them because I liked the look, but performance won the day.

Your crossover looks clean too. I see a recap in your future to bring them back into spec. Well, not your future, but someone else who you know that can help out. Even before I recapped mine, they sounded better than about any speaker I owned before. Just sounded better after the recap.

You know, looking at the wood in your HF section, it looks lacquered. I have one pair of LS that are birch that were walnut stained and lacquered at the factory (stickers still on mine) . . . Maybe that is what you have.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Rhetor

[Sancho Panza]

If I had as many speakers as you have, I'd pull those Type AA & send them to Crites to inspect & re-cap.

[Sancho Panza]

BOLD is MINE

http://www.critesspeakers.com/prices-services.html

REBUILD YOUR CROSSOVERS:

You can ship your crossovers to us for a rebuild. That rebuild would include replacing the capacitors with high quality Sonicaps. That would include all the caps that are in the signal path. For the crossovers that have woofer roll off caps, we use non-polarized electrolytics for that woofer roll off. After the rebuild, we test the rebuilt crossovers on a spectrum analyzer to insure that the crossover is back in factory spec.

These prices are for parts (capacitors), labor and testing. If, during testing, we find that another part such as an inductor or autotransformer needs replacing, we would contact you. It is extremely rare that the crossovers need anything other than new capacitors to put them back into spec.

For any of these rebuilds, shipping back to you would be $13.00 by Priority Mail in the US.

PRICES LISTED ARE FOR PARTS AND LABOR TO REBUILD A PAIR OF CROSSOVERS UNLESS INDICATED AS (SINGLE)

TYPE AA Crossovers: $110.00

[Rhetor]

BOLD is MINE

http://www.critesspeakers.com/prices-services.html

REBUILD YOUR CROSSOVERS:

You can ship your crossovers to us for a rebuild. That rebuild would include replacing the capacitors with high quality Sonicaps. That would include all the caps that are in the signal path. For the crossovers that have woofer roll off caps, we use non-polarized electrolytics for that woofer roll off. After the rebuild, we test the rebuilt crossovers on a spectrum analyzer to insure that the crossover is back in factory spec.

These prices are for parts (capacitors), labor and testing. If, during testing, we find that another part such as an inductor or autotransformer needs replacing, we would contact you. It is extremely rare that the crossovers need anything other than new capacitors to put them back into spec.

For any of these rebuilds, shipping back to you would be $13.00 by Priority Mail in the US.

PRICES LISTED ARE FOR PARTS AND LABOR TO REBUILD A PAIR OF CROSSOVERS UNLESS INDICATED AS (SINGLE)

TYPE AA Crossovers: $110.00

That is $220 for two rebuilds; Or just buy the DIY build kit from him $87, enough to rebuild two AA crossovers . . . Youth is like a Klipsch mafia middle man . . . He knows people who can do the dirty work! ;-)

[Sancho Panza]

up to him, but, he has to WAIT on WAKE & if WAKE & he are competent to do the INSPECTION part, he could save some money...

[Rhetor]

up to him, but, he has to WAIT on WAKE & if WAKE & he are competent to do the INSPECTION part, he could save some money...

Inspection? Yeah, I inspected mine when I got them. Looked inside the HF section and said to myself, "Look there are nearly 40 year old caps in there!" Talked to Bob the first time. Convinced me that a 40 year old cap (looking good and even testing good on a multi-meter) was most likely weakened over time. He convinced me to try it myself the first time. Never soldered in my life. Pointed me to the tutorial for AA on his website. http://www.critesspeakers.com/rebuilding_a_set_of_type_aa.html

After I got the old ones out I tested them with the trusty multi-meter (first use of one) and most of them were still tested good, all of them tested good on one crossover. But BOTH speakers, which sounded good with the old caps, came alive with the Sonicap replacements from the Crites kits. Went on to replace the caps in in a pair of K-horns and a pair of Heresys and woke them both up.

It was a fun learning experience. And you cannot get much better from a sideline coach than through Bob's tutorial. Took just a few days to get the kits from Crites. Plus, I had a backup plan. If I failed, was just going to pack up the crossovers and mail them to Bob for a makeover.

One caveat . . . some people prefer different caps than the sonicaps. But, Bob did right by me . . . More than once.

PS Edit: his tip at the end of the tutorial on changing out the inductor screw was spot on for me. Two of the three sets of crossovers I did had regular steel screws holding the inductors down instead of stainless steel. That was a simple change out and I am sure gained a little performance the dogs can hear. Made me feel better anyway.

Edited April 18, 2014 by Rhetor

[beeker]

You know i was. On the other hand to listen to the 402 alone with a direct radiating woofer or 2 i would be even more content. I enjoyed his whole system. I appreciate the boombox jamming on the street corner as well as limited produced conrad johnson or krell gear driving imported speakers that i never heard of before. It truly is the material...not the speaker nor anything else.

I understand all the graphs and have read and understood so much more since even the last week after listening to the claude quarter pie as well as his dual danleys. Now at home with my direct 18's and surround sound using heresys not even my chorus which are in the room watching many films i pull hard for direct radiation.

There is a delay with subs in subwoofer designs i do not like no matter how efficient due to horns slower dispersion as well as low frequency woofers in 3 way speakers. Quality direct radiating bass in my opinion is better than the delay in a low frequency horn.

Instant bass(direct radiating) is better than waiting for 3, 5, 20 foot of bass traveling through a horn all in my opinion as well as a dozen others i have discussed this with in the past week after my goal was to listen to the 402's-1, 2 the danleys and yes the quarter pies better than a khorn or parallel to jubilee(id compare it to a jubilee way more than a khorn). The jubilee or quarter pie with a 402 and danleys once you would be acustomed to them may draw you in very tight. I prefer tuning my bass instantly...

Wouldn't adjusting the time delay take care of that... Or is there more to it than that?

I tried to discuss this with claude and had no return on his views with this very topic.

Yes it will help indeed, although...to this day an actual adjustment from direct radiating and horn dispersion is not even on a toggle switch so to speak. No matter how anybody puts it i still do not feel it is at this day in time that easy. I could write on and on and on with what i have even learned in the last 3 days let alone the way it was built upon what i found when visiting claude.

I have to say as i do admire claudes system i find that instant bass is so very current. Horn use with bass is in my opinion just being discovered even though Paul Klipsch has built the ultimate foundation that we all walk upon everyday. Much before Paul were horns for o so many years. Thousands or possibly millions on the earth. Most of which were to lend a hand in the travel of sound. Thus i find in the home for bass... subwoofer or woofer a direct radiating low frequency design more than efficient plus sufficient. With mids and highs on the other hand I find material under a small roof even a large theater very constructive and help accent noise reproduction very well. Even the 402 or similar horns are overkill unless in very large venues such as in outdoor sound reinforcement use.

Not to clutter youthmans thread i have to say even the lascala was designed for indoor/outdoor pa use. Let alone the long roads other klipsch horn loaded variations have went leading them into the home. Sure it takes not even a watt to efficiently drive many of klipsch drivers but when we load our homes with such large creations once again just a bit overkill. To be simple with the klipsch designs i find so much more practical use of a 100lb full range monitor or 40lb let alone grabbing the nearly 200lb efficiency speakers that so much get misused with way too many watts by many that have these speakers to use that just want good sound from a 100wpc amp, once again overkill and impractical misuse

[Rhetor]

Sure it takes not even a watt to efficiently drive many of klipsch drivers but when we load our homes with such large creations once again just a bit overkill.

To be simple with the klipsch designs i find so much more practical use of a 100lb full range monitor or 40lb let alone grabbing the nearly 200lb efficiency speakers that so much get misused with way too many watts by many that have these speakers to use that just want good sound from a 100wpc amp, once again overkill and impractical misuse

Overkill? I thought that was the point of a hobby. My K-horn fronts testify to that. ;-) Edited April 18, 2014 by Rhetor

[Sancho Panza]

How do you inspect to see if diaphragms have been replaced?

[beeker]

lol right on! no offense tho you have been around enough to know how to drive them. i appreciate all audio. even with a room full of buddies blowing 500wpc out of my set backwards bose 901's pushing a bag all over the room like a big fart lol

Khorns what have anybody as long as its klipsch or klipsch derived im not gonna do stupid crap like that with klipsch on the label lol

[beeker]

How do you inspect to see if diaphragms have been replaced?

which driver?