Forte II Large or Small in Audyssey

[Sancho Panza]

Not if it sounds Better.

[Sancho Panza]

Not to say what Gary & Rich_Guy said is inaccurate...but, there is no right or wrong, this is not a moral issue.

[Rich_Guy]

Not if it sounds Better.

Of course there is no accounting for taste or bad taste (some people do choose Bose ).

But just as Klipsch chooses to use a crossover inside the speaker to direct sound to the correct speaker. The actual use of the Small/ Large setting is to add another crossover to your system in the event you add another speaker to your system, this other speaker being a subwoofer.

Using Large does not use any low bass crossover it directs all low bass to your speaker. Even if you choose a crossover setting it is NOT used.

Using Small turns ON your low bass crossover and when this crossover is set correctly directs bass that your speakers can produce well to them while sending lower bass which your speakers do not produce well to the subwoofer, when done correctly the result should be cleaner yet more powerful bass as the correct speakers are working in the range where they perform their best.

Using crossovers that are well adjusted to the speakers should improve their sound rather than just sending all information to the speakers. Using Small turns ON the crossover sending lowest bass to the sub, using Large turns OFF the crossover sending everything to your speakers.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Rich_Guy

[Sancho Panza]

Theory & Practice are often different as to outcomes.

[Rich_Guy]

A little like in theory a Klipsch Palladium P-39F Home Theater System should sound better than a Bose Acoustimass 10 speaker system. There really is a correct choice, based only on sound quality, with size / price being completely left out of the decision.

Obviously I want the Bose Acoustimass 10 speaker system, hey it has 10 speakers!

[Sancho Panza]

No there is NOT!

[Sancho Panza]

The Bose insults notwithstanding.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Sancho Panza

[Rich_Guy]

It's the same reason you don't send your lowest bass to your tweeters.

Your tweeters are not designed for it and will not do it well. Your mains, center, surrounds etc. were not designed for the lowest bass in a sound track and won't produce bass lower than their capabilities well or at all, this is what the subwoofer is designed for.

Of course the final results will vary according to how well the entire system is matched and how the crossovers are adjusted etc. But plain and simple if your mains perform down to 37 Hz and your subwoofer performs down to 18 Hz you want to send signals below 37 Hz to your subwoofer not your mains

[Sancho Panza]

Good points & as my subs are weak I use Large & LFE+Main.

[Heritage_Head]

Not if large sounds better

Then you are not setting your crossover correctly or your speakers / sub are not matched correctly.

What the Large / Small setting does is activate a crossover between your sub and speakers. Just as your speakers have built in crossovers to direct sound to your woofer or tweeters (and sometimes midrange speakers), your subwoofer should be the speaker which handles the very lowest sound and setting the speakers to Small turns ON the crossover which directs the lowest sound to the sub.

Using Large with a subwoofer is is sort of the same thing as if you just removed your speakers built in crossover, except this is a crossover for the lowest hz. a crossover between your speaker and subwoofer.

Your settings should be set to Small with the crossover set to be near or just above the lowest hz your speakers woofers can handle, at this point the subwoofer takes over producing the deepest lows which your other speakers cannot produce.

Setting to Large disables the subwoofer / speaker crossover so your speakers are given all signals even ones they either cannot produce or don't produce very well. When using a subwoofer that is correct for your system it should be what handles the very lowest hz.

The correct method is to have properly matched speakers and use crossovers that direct the sound to the proper speaker for correct sound range, setting your speakers to small turns ON the crossover designed for use with a subwoofer and directs the lowest hz there. Again how low this is depends on the speaker and subwoofer capabilities.

I understand how it works. This is not a right or wrong debate. What sounds best is the right answer. If using bass management on your fronts sounds better for you thats fine. I can't argue all the reasons to use it. But to my ears in that system it sounds a little more full. Its really close though and i wold be happy with both ways.

[Heritage_Head]

It's the same reason you don't send your lowest bass to your tweeters.

Your tweeters are not designed for it and will not do it well. Your mains, center, surrounds etc. were not designed for the lowest bass in a sound track and won't produce bass lower than their capabilities well or at all, this is what the subwoofer is designed for.

Of course the final results will vary according to how well the entire system is matched and how the crossovers are adjusted etc. But plain and simple if your mains perform down to 37 Hz and your subwoofer performs down to 18 Hz you want to send signals below 37 Hz to your subwoofer not your mains

I wish my avr had a xo at 30hz. I would like to try that and see how it sounds. Mine only goes down to 40. And 40 is super close to large. I bet someone that has never heard the system wouldn't even notice the difference its that close. Its just tiny bit more full (and i mean tiny tiny)

[Rudy81]

Here is what Audyssey has to say on the subject. Maybe they know best since they designed the software....?

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

I use Audyssey Pro and have my mains all set to Large....However, my front three mains use two RSW-15s for the lower two octaves. All my other speakers, including the Klipsch Cinema effects are small.

For clarification, the mains are actively crossed with the RSW-15s.

My LFE channel is based on two SPUD clone subs.

Edited April 25, 2014 by Rudy81

[beeker]

I didnt read everything although have watched this thread pop up a few times. No matter how big of speakers i always set my speakers to small and subs to big.

Some situations do profile a bit better when mains are set to big with the rest to small...with your avr settings this may be better...

Its always best to try everything out to see what works best for you, your room, material listening to and speakers combined...

[Rich_Guy]

I wish my avr had a xo at 30hz. I would like to try that and see how it sounds. Mine only goes down to 40. And 40 is super close to large. I bet someone that has never heard the system wouldn't even notice the difference its that close. Its just tiny bit more full (and i mean tiny tiny)

40 Hz is probably about the best crossover point for your RF-7 ll's although Klipsch rates them down to 30 Hz it is usually better to stay a little higher than the speakers lowest capabilities. Also the crossover point is not a rock solid line that allows nothing above or below it is more a blending point.

My RF-5's are rated down to 34 Hz by Klipsch but through experimentation I have found I like my crossover set to 60 Hz, my RC-7 is also set to 60 Hz, while I prefer my surrounds set to 70 Hz., I find this gives my system its cleanest most natural sound.

[Rich_Guy]

Here is what Audyssey has to say on the subject. Maybe they know best since they designed the software....?

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

Precisely, as both Audyssey and I am saying if you use a subwoofer your speakers are small.

BTW, Audyssey always recommends using Small when a subwoofer is used. If you run Audyssey and your speakers are set to Large it is not actually Audyssey that is doing this it is being done by the receiver/processors manufacturer and Audyssey recommends that it be changed to Small.

[Heritage_Head]

Here is what Audyssey has to say on the subject. Maybe they know best since they designed the software....?

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

Precisely, as both Audyssey and I am saying if you use a subwoofer your speakers are small.

BTW, Audyssey always recommends using Small when a subwoofer is used. If you run Audyssey and your speakers are set to Large it is not actually Audyssey that is doing this it is being done by the receiver/processors manufacturer and Audyssey recommends that it be changed to Small.

Its funny they recommend small but their software seems to set them to large for some reason

[Sancho Panza]

It's the AVR that sets them to Large.

[Heritage_Head]

Many different articles say that in some cases you might find that setting them large will give better results. In this case the costumer (listener) is always right

[beeker]

Sancho. With your lascalas and direct radiating sub or subs...i would actually find it very possible your ls's in big would go together possibly really well in Audyssey.

Altogether no matter who makes the choice it is you that has to live with it lol jk...iv tried for years with different settings as well as with built in eq's these days a bit, not as much as i used to although your Ls's/direct sub combo really may be best in big....As well as your heresy ii's in surround possibly center(id doubt center, maybe turn center volume up ... from there out i would go with small. You are the king of your castle...just tossing a thought out there for your golden ears my friend!

Big rooms on the other hand do tend to draw for large settings and adjust from there....we all pick our own poison lol

[Rich_Guy]

Here is what Audyssey has to say on the subject. Maybe they know best since they designed the software....?

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

Precisely, as both Audyssey and I am saying if you use a subwoofer your speakers are small.

BTW, Audyssey always recommends using Small when a subwoofer is used. If you run Audyssey and your speakers are set to Large it is not actually Audyssey that is doing this it is being done by the receiver/processors manufacturer and Audyssey recommends that it be changed to Small.

Its funny they recommend small but their software seems to set them to large for some reason

Audyssey does not control this the equipment manufacturer does, Audyssey recommends changing them to Small if this is done.

After I run Audyssey I always go back and change my speakers to Small if needed and set my crossover settings to my preferred settings, I also reset and equalize my speaker volume levels with my own SPL meter, this makes a big improvement.