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Willne1

Forte II Large or Small in Audyssey

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Here is what Audyssey has to say on the subject. Maybe they know best since they designed the software....?

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

Precisely, as both Audyssey and I am saying if you use a subwoofer your speakers are small.

BTW, Audyssey always recommends using Small when a subwoofer is used. If you run Audyssey and your speakers are set to Large it is not actually Audyssey that is doing this it is being done by the receiver/processors manufacturer and Audyssey recommends that it be changed to Small.

Its funny they recommend small but their software seems to set them to large for some reason :D

Audyssey does not control this the equipment manufacturer does, Audyssey recommends changing them to Small if this is done.

After I run Audyssey I always go back and change my speakers to Small if needed and set my crossover settings to my preferred settings, I also reset and equalize my speaker volume levels with my own SPL meter, this makes a big improvement.

So that would mean when they eq the subs its before bass management is added. Thats kind of a bummer

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Many different articles say that in some cases you might find that setting them large will give better results. In this case the costumer (listener) is always right

This is always a nice thing to say, but the truth is the customer is rarely right and most often does not really know what they are doing.

Kind of like comparing a professionally calibrated picture to one in store bought blazing mode or the average customer tuned by eye.

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Pretty sure Audyssey doesn't recommend the SPL Meter.

I sure as hell do!

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Cite your source. Nevermind I see that on ask Audyssey. Seems a more accurate Audyssey Mic would take care of that.

Pretty sure Audyssey doesn't recommend the SPL Meter.

I sure as hell do!
Edited by Sancho Panza
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If someone uses LFE + Main, your subwoofer does get the low frequencies, even with the front speakers set to LARGE, at least in our house. As the name of the setting implies, both the sub and the mains get the bass. If someone tries this, they should put their ear down to the sub, to make sure it is true with their AVR or pre/pro.

I agree that whatever sounds best, is best. Some of the factors that go into this are:

  • Is there appreciable phase cancellation? If so, you may not want LFE + Main.
  • Is there neither too much nor too little bass? Is it "boomy," or "smooth?" Some AVRs call LFE + Main "Double Bass," because there can be a bass increase with this setting. On the other hand, there can be dips here and there in the bass with LFE + Main engaged. Try a test disk or REW to see if there are peaks and valleys created, or peaks only, or valleys only. So much depends on where the seats are, where the speakers are, and where the Audyssey mic positions are.

When we first set up, we set the front speakers to SMALL, as per Audyssey instructions. We listened for about 3 or 4 months, with several movies per week, and music every day. Then we experimented for a few months with all Front speakers at SMALL v. LARGE (@ LARGE with LFE+Main on, and with the sub working), then we tried the Center Belle Klipsch SMALL, with the Klipschorns at LARGE, with LFE + Main (and the surround Heresy IIs SMALL, of course). Switching the Belle to SMALL increased clarity, and switching the Klipschorns to LARGE provided a very gentle increase from about 90 to 150Hz, according to REW (even though the Subwoofer crossover was 80!), and made the whole system sound better. In our room, from our couch, with our speakers, there are no additional dips (REW again), only the increased response from 90 to 150 Hz.

As far as Audyssey knowing best, they keep saying they provide Reference, not Preference (Audyssey does a geat job smoothing out the midrange at our house so we value it for that). Long live Preference! :)

Edited by Garyrc
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So we pick and chose what audyssey is right about. Seems fishy :rolleyes:

Well Chris the founder of Audyssey recommends much of what I have said, definitely Chris (Audyssey) definitely recommends always using Small when a subwoofer is used, read the linked article by Audyssey on small/large a few posts back.If you run Audyssey and you get a Large setting it was not Audyssey that set it that way.

As for using my own SPL meter, ever since I bought my own meter and starting using it to set my speaker volume levels there has been nothing else that has ever compared, simply a far better much more balanced sound.

There is a lot you can do with settings to improve the way a system sounds some just preference but many are not and when you learn how to set many of the settings correctly it can really make a huge difference in sound quality by sounding far more natural and realistic.

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Here is what Audyssey has to say on the subject. Maybe they know best since they designed the software....?

http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

Precisely, as both Audyssey and I am saying if you use a subwoofer your speakers are small.

BTW, Audyssey always recommends using Small when a subwoofer is used. If you run Audyssey and your speakers are set to Large it is not actually Audyssey that is doing this it is being done by the receiver/processors manufacturer and Audyssey recommends that it be changed to Small.

Its funny they recommend small but their software seems to set them to large for some reason :D

Audyssey does not control this the equipment manufacturer does, Audyssey recommends changing them to Small if this is done.

After I run Audyssey I always go back and change my speakers to Small if needed and set my crossover settings to my preferred settings, I also reset and equalize my speaker volume levels with my own SPL meter, this makes a big improvement.

That's exactly how I set mine up. I always go back and level match from the MLP with a meter. Tried it both ways several times and this yields the best results for ME.

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Most everyone here understands Chris & Audyssey recommend Small & did so long before this thread existed.

For most, that is probably the best setting, but NOT All.

I'll try small & 80 again when I'm able to add another SW.

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I'm aware that small is recommended. That does not make it the only setting to use however. Plenty of folks have tried both and when the other way. With this its best to try both and be your own judge on whats best. I get the feeling your saying that small is right in every case. That i can't agree with.

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So we pick and chose what audyssey is right about. Seems fishy :rolleyes:

Well Chris the founder of Audyssey recommends much of what I have said, definitely Chris (Audyssey) definitely recommends always using Small when a subwoofer is used, read the linked article by Audyssey on small/large a few posts back.If you run Audyssey and you get a Large setting it was not Audyssey that set it that way.

As for using my own SPL meter, ever since I bought my own meter and starting using it to set my speaker volume levels there has been nothing else that has ever compared, simply a far better much more balanced sound.

There is a lot you can do with settings to improve the way a system sounds some just preference but many are not and when you learn how to set many of the settings correctly it can really make a huge difference in sound quality by sounding far more natural and realistic.

I use a shack meter and a on screen bass eq system (sms-1). Im surprised your this dug in on one way only for all systems.

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So we pick and chose what audyssey is right about. Seems fishy :rolleyes:

Well Chris the founder of Audyssey recommends much of what I have said, definitely Chris (Audyssey) definitely recommends always using Small when a subwoofer is used, read the linked article by Audyssey on small/large a few posts back.If you run Audyssey and you get a Large setting it was not Audyssey that set it that way.

As for using my own SPL meter, ever since I bought my own meter and starting using it to set my speaker volume levels there has been nothing else that has ever compared, simply a far better much more balanced sound.

There is a lot you can do with settings to improve the way a system sounds some just preference but many are not and when you learn how to set many of the settings correctly it can really make a huge difference in sound quality by sounding far more natural and realistic.

I use a shack meter and a on screen bass eq system (sms-1). Im surprised your this dug in on one way only for all systems.

As far as using an SPL meter this is just what I have experienced to be the most accurate, for me personally using my meter was a huge leap from setting by ear and has also proven to be far more accurate than using Audyssey to make the settings. There is also a very specific way to calibrate a system with Audyssey more than most people bother to learn, for instance you must always use all of the mic positions and use the correct mic placements specified by Audyssey, many people don't do this correctly. But let me also say I am not all that hung up on Audyssey I use it only as one tool, that's one reason I mentioned what I do does vary from the settings after running Audyssey.

Anyway yes when it comes to your own system do what you like best it's yours to satisfy you as you see fit and make you happy, however on the forum here I see this a little too often. There really are some ways that are correct as well as some that are preference, when a system is done right it can make a huge difference, the difference can be as extreme as completely different speakers or the difference between hating, liking or absolutely loving the way your system sounds.

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As for using my own SPL meter, ever since I bought my own meter and starting using it to set my speaker volume levels there has been nothing else that has ever compared, simply a far better much more balanced sound.

It's O.K. to use a separate SPL meter (for speaker volumes only) IF the pink noise you use is from an outside source that passes through your already auto-adjusted Audyssey frequency response/time domain processing in your AVR. An example of such an outside source would be a test CD or BD with band limited pink noise on it. The problem with test noise sources built into most (all?) AVRs would be that the noise is put into the circuit AFTER (nearer to the output than) the Audyssey processing components, and therefore the SPL at each frequency within the pink noise may be different than would have been, had it passed through Audyssey on playback. If, by coincidence, because of the nature of your room, speakers, and listening position, Audyssey doesn't alter your frequency response much within the band-limited range of the pink noise (something like 500 to 2KHz, except for noise going to the sub), then level setting with a noise signal from the AVR would be pretty good, by accident.

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I changed everything to Small and 80HZ,cranked up my sub by 3db and set it to LFE+Mains ( not sure about that setting) but anyhow while watching Robert Plant on Palladia channel in Dolby Digital I hardly had any bass at all. My system sounded very thin almost reminded me of Bose...lol. What kind of material do you guys listen to for your adjustments music or movies or both? I had Dynamic EQ on and Reference Level Offset 10db. So far my old setting of Large Mains and 40 HZ Xover was better but I just started listening to this new setting. Also the Robert Plant concert may not have had much bass in it.

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I changed everything to Small and 80HZ,cranked up my sub by 3db and set it to LFE+Mains ( not sure about that setting) but anyhow while watching Robert Plant on Palladia channel in Dolby Digital I hardly had any bass at all. My system sounded very thin almost reminded me of Bose...lol. What kind of material do you guys listen to for your adjustments music or movies or both? I had Dynamic EQ on and Reference Level Offset 10db. So far my old setting of Large Mains and 40 HZ Xover was better but I just started listening to this new setting. Also the Robert Plant concert may not have had much bass in it.

Try Small and lower the crossover try different settings 60Hz - 40HZ. BTW when you select Large there is NO crossover so you really are not setting it to Large with a 40 hz crossover, by selecting Large the receivers crossover is not used at all.

Edited by Rich_Guy

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I changed everything to Small and 80HZ,cranked up my sub by 3db and set it to LFE+Mains ( not sure about that setting) but anyhow while watching Robert Plant on Palladia channel in Dolby Digital I hardly had any bass at all. My system sounded very thin almost reminded me of Bose...lol. What kind of material do you guys listen to for your adjustments music or movies or both? I had Dynamic EQ on and Reference Level Offset 10db. So far my old setting of Large Mains and 40 HZ Xover was better but I just started listening to this new setting. Also the Robert Plant concert may not have had much bass in it.

Go with what sounds best :) . No reason not too

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