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Crossover and speaker settings - Help Please!


Dreadneck13
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Main speakers 20 kHz to 40 Hz

center speaker 20 kHz to 55 Hz

surround spk.  20 KHz to 70 Hz

Subwoofer       200 Hz to 20 Hz

 

Crossover range based on sub and weakest speaker 70 Hz ( surround speaker) to 200 Hz (subwoofer).  The best XO is around 85 Hz but, 80 Hz would be fine since some avr's don't do 85 Hz.  You could set the XO higher but subwoofer localization is greater above 100 Hz.  This will be around the ideal XO setting.  It is also possible in this senario to use a XO of no lower than 60 Hz.  Yes, this breaks the rule but, most likely will not leave a gap that is audible or result in speaker damage.  Most avr's will not send as strong of a signal to surround speaker when using bass management (i.e. speakers set to small)

 

Why not use Large setting?  When speakers are set to Large there can be phase problems and cancellation issues that will rob the system of deep, clean bass and dynamic.  Large towers, like my RF 7 don't produce clean bass as well as a sub when you get 10-15 Hz near their lower frequency cutoff.  Also, setting speaker to small makes the system quasi 3 way.  Sub doing the lows, speakers doing the midrange and Hi's.  This also leaves more headroom in the system and the midrange and Hi's can play around 5-6 db louder.  2 ch is a slightly different beast and many people will set the towers to large.

 

Power management should always be a consideration in a multichannel setup.  Also, subwoofers have their own power supply ( amp ).  Low bass in a movie can be very demaning and most avr's were designed to use bass management.  Why do you have an option, consumer demand, that is not based on audio science.  This negates the need for 100 lb amp and furnaces in your audio rack.

Edited by derrickdj1
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Great analogy. I'm all set with my sub seeing it's powered and has the crossover and gain behind it. But my have Pinnacle soundbar that is crazy loud no distortion and even has decent lows. The highs are surprisingly topnotch. My view of the other 3 crossover channels were more of the way the surround sound switches sounds etc if that makes any sense lol.

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So the lower the crossover number the better if it can handle it? Sorry new with this

 

No not really, it is best to have a good matching system and set up a nice blending of all the speakers. THX specifies 80hz as a crossover point, personally on my system I have found 60hz works best for my front speakers and I am using 70hz on my surrounds since I can adjust the crossover at each of my speakers, however some receivers may have only one crossover setting.

 

Lower frequencies start to become unlocalized to the human ear so you cannot tell from which direction or which speaker the sound is coming from, this probably varies among people but for me I like frequencies below 80hz to come from my speakers not just my subwoofer if capable, this is why I use my 60hz and 70hz rather than the THX 80hz. I think it is best to spend a little time to experiment with different crossover points based on your systems capabilities and listen for what sounds best to you.

Edited by Rich_Guy
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  • 1 year later...

Hi there well i have just joined the forum and new here just a quick one

I have been using a YAMAHA RXV 3900 for a couples of years now just upgraded my speakers from polk to Klipsch RP 280 F and I just cant get the right setting to run the speakers.

I am not using any sub woofer

My set up is the RXV3900

Front speakers Klipsch RP 280F

Center Is Paradigm CC350 which i will be upgrading with Klipsch RP 450C

Surrounds is Quadral Aurum 2 which i will be upgrading soon with Klipsch RP 250S

for now can you please help me get the right setup would really appreciate your help.

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I have heard both sides of this argument and understand the pros and cons of each but my question is, if you're going to neuter your mains by hardly sending any bass to them, why not just use a bunch of bookshelves and let your subs handle all the bass. I mean what's the point of having 15 inch drivers that only play from 80hz up? 

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5 hours ago, nitrofan said:

I have heard both sides of this argument and understand the pros and cons of each but my question is, if you're going to neuter your mains by hardly sending any bass to them, why not just use a bunch of bookshelves and let your subs handle all the bass. I mean what's the point of having 15 inch drivers that only play from 80hz up? 

Well, there is tons of energy in music above 80 hz, perhaps more than you realize.  Larger drivers will have a significant advantage in clean headroom, which allows Roy and company much more wiggle room to engineer proper bsc and tonal balance into the speaker.  This takes a lot of capability from the driver, to frequencies north of 500 hz, perhaps higher.

 

I would tend to agree, using 15" mid/woofs from 80 hz on up may be overkill.  However, PWK once mentioned that it would be heretical to use a 15" woofer without horn loading.  High passing such a speaker would reduce cone excursion and IMD, perhaps not as much as horn loading would, but it's still a step in the right direction.

 

 

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18 hours ago, Marlborodave said:

Hi there well i have just joined the forum and new here just a quick one

I have been using a YAMAHA RXV 3900 for a couples of years now just upgraded my speakers from polk to Klipsch RP 280 F and I just cant get the right setting to run the speakers.

I am not using any sub woofer

My set up is the RXV3900

Front speakers Klipsch RP 280F

Center Is Paradigm CC350 which i will be upgrading with Klipsch RP 450C

Surrounds is Quadral Aurum 2 which i will be upgrading soon with Klipsch RP 250S

for now can you please help me get the right setup would really appreciate your help.

Set the main speakers to large.

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18 hours ago, nitrofan said:

I have heard both sides of this argument and understand the pros and cons of each but my question is, if you're going to neuter your mains by hardly sending any bass to them, why not just use a bunch of bookshelves and let your subs handle all the bass. I mean what's the point of having 15 inch drivers that only play from 80hz up? 

You are correct and see this in the stores.  Large speakers are not super popular to the masses.

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On 9/28/2017 at 5:48 PM, Marlborodave said:

Hi there well i have just joined the forum and new here just a quick one

I have been using a YAMAHA RXV 3900 for a couples of years now just upgraded my speakers from polk to Klipsch RP 280 F and I just cant get the right setting to run the speakers.

I am not using any sub woofer

My set up is the RXV3900

Front speakers Klipsch RP 280F

Center Is Paradigm CC350 which i will be upgrading with Klipsch RP 450C

Surrounds is Quadral Aurum 2 which i will be upgrading soon with Klipsch RP 250S

for now can you please help me get the right setup would really appreciate your help.

 

Since you are NOT using a subwoofer you should set you speakers to Large or Full Range. You will not be using a crossover setting since you have no subwoofer.

 

On 9/28/2017 at 6:26 PM, nitrofan said:

I have heard both sides of this argument and understand the pros and cons of each but my question is, if you're going to neuter your mains by hardly sending any bass to them, why not just use a bunch of bookshelves and let your subs handle all the bass. I mean what's the point of having 15 inch drivers that only play from 80hz up? 

 

You use a crossover to direct the appropriate  range to your speakers. the lower the range of your main speakers the lower your crossover settings can be. You want the subwoofer to do the lowest range and then set your crossover to a good blending point between the subwoofer and the mains (or other speakers in your system).  80 hz is a fairly high setting even though THX recommended I would not use that for speakers that have a nice low range of their own usually more like 40hz to 60hz or so, it entirely depends on the speakers being used.

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  • 4 months later...

My apologies for the Necrobump, but there seems to be some good ideas here.  Let me throw in a monkey wrench.

 

My main speakers are EV Sentry III (15", Max 50W, 3-way, bi-amp, normally 3dB down at 40Hz but can be stepped down to 28).  The AVR (on its way) is a Sony STR-DH550.  The sub is a Klipsch KSW-200.  I plan on listening to music as much as movies and would like to have the sub active during music.  I've read that setting speakers to large (there is no "massive" or "huge" setting!) would prevent sub use during most music since the front speakers can handle nearly as low as the sub (lower with the step-down kit, but not as tight or clean).  I could set them to small and roll off some of the lower bass to the sub, which is likely good for these aging beasts.  

 

The monkey wrench option is to set them small and use both sub outputs to my H/K stereo amp and run the EV's in bi-amp mode.  This would use the "pass-through" mode of the sub.  The AVR would see stereo subs.  Proper setting of the crossover on the sub to get this right might be tough and the AVR's crossover for the fronts would need to be very high.  Is it worth trying?  It would be a lot of setup.  Anyone try anything like this?

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