Cornin with Dynaco

[_RIGGED_]

Well, after all these years of solid statin, I'm ready to test out tubes in my home.

I really dig the look of the Dynaco (Bob Latino) models and my budget is $1,000 to $1,500, I'm just wonderin if the 35WPC ST70 will be enough to get my Cornwalls to dance. For $500 more clams, I can get the 60WPC ST120, will the ST70 do the trick or will the ST120 be a must?

My taste includes Rock, Pop,Country, and Jazz music.

Thanks fellas,

RIGGED

The obvious question is "why tubes?" What are you trying to achieve on the switch?

Over the years, I've heard so many things(warmth, plays well with horns etc..) about tubes and like the Beekster said, I just want to experience them in my home.

Thanks for all of the advice guys, I appreciate it.

RIGGED

Edited May 27, 2014 by _RIGGED_

[ClaudeJ1]

my 60+wattx2 tube amp is way too much with my chorus...I never get beyond 1/3 a turn on the dial although you always wonder what can your speakers do...so i have went to about 2/3 turn and that about does it.... I would get the st70 likely just for the fact the st120 is cursed with issues. If the st120 was in very good working order(make sure you do examine either although the st120 is plagued with issues) i would consider it although yes in a lifetime nobody would ever turn the volume past halfway cept maybe once.

So if you understand about efficiency and how little power you need for Choruses (similar to Cornwalls in efficiency) how come you didn't make the recommendation for the less expensive ST-70 in your original answer?

If you know that ST-120 amps are more problematic and that little power is needed, you are not helping the OP with your original opinion of going for more power and stating the no one ever downsizes power once they get more efficient speakers. Getting more efficiency and lower watts will always result in lower distortion, you know that.

I'm not picking on you here, but you answers cancel each other.

Edited May 27, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[Marvel]

You guys are forgetting that the difference between 35 and 60 Watts is only 2.34 Decibels of output. It's tough to detect that difference in normal listening.

I'm not forgetting at all. I'm just not going to argue with someone who says he should get a bigger amp. That should be obvious from the amps I use. My 3.5 wpc amps drive my LS to insane levels. My 25 wpc H/K isn't breaking a sweat, and my 75 wpc amp doesn't even start to get warm.

In fact, I am in full agreement with Dave, the ST70 would be a great amp.

Bruce

[beeker]

Once i was questioned my answers did not void anything...I was stating from experience then with the st120 what i have heard. Man you guys like to argue...I like to argue too

Lets stay on track fellas lol the guy wants to rock out...sure you can take a fraction of a watt and make it slam...You can also take many watts and be absolutely get blown away..I prefer to use speakers that were meant for a house and not for a stage or venue of 20k give or take...watts are watts...use each one like you want to...

the st70 in the 2 choices after doing some sleeping i remembered the issues that were had by some...so in my opinion the st70 would be great to begin with although the st120 if works great and all the case screws arnt stripped as long as them outter case screws look like new i would give it a shot(and a good hour demo)...wow guys up your dose of valium...relax...breathe...in...out...in....out...etc.......

[ClaudeJ1]

You guys are forgetting that the difference between 35 and 60 Watts is only 2.34 Decibels of output. It's tough to detect that difference in normal listening.

I'm not forgetting at all. I'm just not going to argue with someone who says he should get a bigger amp. That should be obvious from the amps I use. My 3.5 wpc amps drive my LS to insane levels. My 25 wpc H/K isn't breaking a sweat, and my 75 wpc amp doesn't even start to get warm.

In fact, I am in full agreement with Dave, the ST70 would be a great amp.

Bruce

And I'm in full agreement with you. Truly. I missed your other posts recommending the lower power.

Edited May 27, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[beeker]

You guys are forgetting that the difference between 35 and 60 Watts is only 2.34 Decibels of output. It's tough to detect that difference in normal listening.

I'm not forgetting at all. I'm just not going to argue with someone who says he should get a bigger amp. That should be obvious from the amps I use. My 3.5 wpc amps drive my LS to insane levels. My 25 wpc H/K isn't breaking a sweat, and my 75 wpc amp doesn't even start to get warm.

In fact, I am in full agreement with Dave, the ST70 would be a great amp.

Bruce

And I'm in full agreement with you. Truly.

Marvel or me or both

[ClaudeJ1]

If the OP truly listens to 95-100 db levels at his listening position, as claimed, the ST-120 might not be enough if he wants 20 db of headroom. He needs Khorns or a big SS amp.

So let's say that there's a 10 db falloff with distance, since Cornies are a 98 db speaker, make that an additive 101 db for 1W through EACH channel. So he would need 10X the power or 10Watts per channel to get that level in the sweet spot, to make up for the -10 DB distance attenuation, approximately. So he would need a 30 DBwatt amp if he wanted a 20 DB headroom for no clipping. That's 1,000 Watts per channel assuming only about a 20 db crest factor.

Either way he can't lose on tubes because he will get all his money back if he ever sells it.

Edited May 27, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[_RIGGED_]

My ST-70 has no problem making my Cornwall sound amazing and I have plenty of room to spare with the volume knob.

My room is quite large and it still shakes the house.

-R

Yet another ST70 vote and with Cornwalls to boot!

RIGGED

Edited May 28, 2014 by _RIGGED_

[_RIGGED_]

Over the years, I've heard so many things(warmth, plays well with horns etc..) about tubes and like the Beekster said, I just want to experience them in my home.

Ok, kind of an experiment then. Of course we can't predict what kind of sound qualities others will like, so I would take this on from a different angle - what's the most "tube'ish sound" you could try, which would best show off the tube qualities? What experiment will give you the greatest insight into how tubes differ from transistor amps? Then, if you don't like that, there wouldn't be much sense going forward with it. You would have heard the example of "good tubes" clearly.

To that end, I would begin with Single-Ended Pentode (SEP) amps that feature no feedback. I think they offer the best window into tubes that you can buy on a modest budget. The most common recommendation, and one I used to make all the time, is the old Dynaco Ultralinear amps, like the ST70, MKIII and SCA35. But, ultralinear amps aren't really that close to today's state of the art in tube amps. Yes, they are good, and yes you can get lots of watts per dollar, but watts per dollar isn't the best way to show the strength of tube amps. A classic Single-Ended Triode (SET) amp would probably cost more than some of the new SEPs, and so for that reason they would be my second recommendation if you can find one in your budget.

A typical SEP with no feedback and really good transformer and caps inside, will demonstrate the beauty of tubes very well. The fine grain, the exquisite detail, the openness and see through clarity is common to these amps. You compare this to your SS amp, and you will say, "Oh, now I get what this tube thing is all about." It will be very obvious.

The Dynaco and all the hundreds of "ultralinear clones" fall behind the SET, SEP, in the finer points of tube sound, but they do offer more power. And to be clear, "more power" was the exact driving force behind the design of the ultralinear amps. On acoustic suspension speakers, the ultralinear has a clear advantage over SET/SEP. The cool thing about horns is that it opened the door to these better sounding, but less powerful designs, like SET/SEP.

Thanks for the recommendations however it's full steam ahead with the ST70, yes, there is a winner of the two.

I decided to get Bob L's advice and much to my surprise, he said I should go with the lower priced ST70.

Sadly, they do not keep wired boxes in stock, it will take up to 3 weeks from the payment date.

I am SO excited, my very first tube amp! Perhaps down the road I'll give SET amps a shot who knows.

I'll post pictures and my thoughts later on.

Thanks again to everyone!

RIGGED

Edited May 28, 2014 by _RIGGED_

[beeker]

I will say the st70, as long as it works after you testing it, will make a very good first tube amplifier. Save some money and start out there. Then a year from now as said it will sell very easily and you could up in watts. cheers and good listening to you!

[_RIGGED_]

I will say the st70, as long as it works after you testing it, will make a very good first tube amplifier. Save some money and start out there. Then a year from now as said it will sell very easily and you could up in watts. cheers and good listening to you!

Thanks dude, I'm stoked!

RIGGED

[beeker]

Congratulations! You are absolutely gonna love it! Keep us updated. If you have any issues hollar out. The st70 is basically thee go to amp for tube lovers. The ones i see selling to go bigger are the peeps with low sensitivity speakers. Rarely will klipsch owners go up in watts as mentioned. You are absolutely gonna love it! Cheers for you and them vacuum tube rocking cornwalls!!!!!!

[_RIGGED_]

I decided to get Bob L's advice and much to my surprise, he said I should go with the lower priced ST70.

Excellent! I am sure you will be delighted with Bob's stuff. He does a great job. Be sure to post when you get the amp all setup! I know you will have a lot of fun in the new adventure.

You got it Hoss!!

RIGGED

[Mallette]

Looking forward to the review. Actually, I read with interest the comments on the ST-35. I made some effort to snag one last year, but prices...while not exceeding the value, IMHO...exceeded my desire for an "extra" amp. I think it would have driven my K'horns as far as I would want to go. I used one for years with Frazier Super Monte Carlos and have never forgotten the sound. In fact, it was that memory that brought me back to tubes after wandering in the clinical white room of SS for a couple of decades.

I wound up snagging the Jolida FX-10, 10wpc. It drove the refrigerator sized Frazier Elevens to levels that were adequate for all but delivering pain.

I am with PWK: "What this country needs is a good 5w amplifier!"

Dave

[Cornman]

Rigged, welcome to the world of "Tubing", come on in the waters fiiiine.

[ClaudeJ1]

I am with PWK: "What this country needs is a good 5w amplifier!" Dave

I have 5 of them. They are based on the Tripath 2020 and 2025 chips, about 6 WPC and tested in the electronics lab at Klipsch headquarters in 2008.

[Mallette]

Crikey,Claude...don't start that again.

Of course, no way to know but I'm betting PWK would have agreed. I use more powerful Class D amps and perhaps they don't deliver whatever you fleawatt guys find so appealing but all have sounded better to these ears than any SS with all horn systems.

OK, now I've thrown gasoline on the fire. Gents, some of our ears just feel horns and SS don't mix well.

Dave

Edited May 28, 2014 by Mallette

[mike stehr]

I am with PWK: "What this country needs is a good 5w amplifier!"

Yup.

[beeker]

its true. they also need khorns for them...so without khorns 30 watts will really piss the neighbors off with cw's

[joshnich]