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_RIGGED_

Cornin with Dynaco

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Well, after all these years of solid statin, I'm ready to test out tubes in my home.

I really dig the look of the Dynaco (Bob Latino) models and my budget is $1,000 to $1,500, I'm just wonderin if the 35WPC ST70 will be enough to get my Cornwalls to dance. For $500 more clams, I can get the 60WPC ST120, will the ST70 do the trick or will the ST120 be a must?

My taste includes Rock, Pop,Country, and Jazz music.

Thanks fellas,

RIGGED

Edited by _RIGGED_
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ST70 will ruin your hearing and do so with absolutely clean sound if what it does with my 'horns is any indicator. Don't think I've ever been able to tolerate it even at 9 o"clock.

Dave

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Thanks Dave. While somewhat on the fence, I am, and have been, leanin towards the ST70, the cool thing is, my wife is indifferent to it all, she just doesn't want to hear any whinin after the fact.

I'm really excited about goin tubin after 27 years of SS. I'll still keep a couple of SS amps, for home theater and all but for two channel listenin, the time has come.

RIGGED

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Thanks Dave. While somewhat on the fence, I am, and have been, leanin towards the ST70, the cool thing is, my wife is indifferent to it all, she just doesn't want to hear any whinin after the fact.

I'm really excited about goin tubin after 27 years of SS. I'll still keep a couple of SS amps, for home theater and all but for two channel listenin, the time has come.

RIGGED

I used a pair of 40 watt RMS Dynaco amps for years. They were pretty much what was combined to make the ST70. They were very warm and good sounding. I used them with a JBL system that was about the efficiency of a Klipschorn, in other words, about 2.85 times as efficient as a Cornwall I ... I don't know about the Cornwall II and III. I think the 35 w.p.c. Dynacos are probably just fine, but If I was doing it, I'd probably get the ST120. According to the Keele article in The Dope From Hope (V 16, No 1, January 1977), 35 watts into a single Cornwall should get you about 108 dB from normal listening position, in a 3,000 cu ft room, with peaks much higher. 60 watts (57 watts) into a single Cornwall should get you about 110 dB (peaks higher) in the same room. So, I vote for the ST120.

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I used my ST-70 (original and then rebuilt) to power my JBL 4311s for years. They got plenty loud for me, and with the JBL efficiency of only 91Db compared to the Cornwall's 98.x to 101 (depending on the model), I think the ST-70 would be fine.

They are great amps, no matter which way you go. The 120 will generate a lot more heat...

Bruce

Edited by Marvel

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I have seen more people sell there st70 to get more power. I have never seen anybody 1 time selling a high watt tube amp to get a smaller amp. If you can swing the extra cash go for the 60x2 no doubt...There will be times you want to here the pure tube output them cw's can provide. The st70 will hold you back in the future, possibly from day one. Cheers and best of times jamming!

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The st70 will hold you back in the future, possibly from day one.
Since I use 3.5 watt amps, I am having a chuckle...

Bruce

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Dang, just as I expected, we have a tie!

FTR my Cornwall 1s are from 78, recapped and ready for tubes.

Everyone so far has made valid points, so, I'm back in the middle.

One one hand, it's always better to have more than enough than not.

On the other hand, buying the lower watt amp opens the door for a used tube amp for the Heresies.

My levels of preferred listening are around 95-100db, depending on how much, well, you know.

RIGGED

Edited by _RIGGED_

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My levels of preferred listening are around 95-100db, depending on how much, well, you know.

Go ahead and get the ST120... ;)

But it is a bit more money.

Bruce

Edited by Marvel

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Yea, I listen at around 95 db and on my Scott 272 tube amp that's just short of a 4 on the volume knob. Setting it to 6 and it start's getting uncomfy. And that's in a 18'x 28' room.

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Go ahead and get the ST120...
I have never seen anybody 1 time selling a high watt tube amp to get a smaller amp. If you can swing the extra cash go for the 60x2 no doubt...

You guys are forgetting that the difference between 35 and 60 Watts is only 2.34 Decibels of output. It's tough to detect that difference in normal listening.

As to the "shrinking of the watts." The owner of a Klipsch dealership sold his McIntosh 240 to get a Mc 225 for his Khorns I did the same thing, both of us years ago. Since you only need about 10 Watts for Khorn PEAKS (10 db watts), and the difference in efficiency between a Khorn and a Cornwall is about 6 db, which is 4X, you only need 40W to equal a Khorn at ear bleed levels, which is NOT 120 db, BTW.

Edited by ClaudeJ1

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Sometimes I have to try to relate electrical flow to fluid flow.

If you double the size of the pipe you get aprox. 4 x the flow.

So if I wanted to double the volume, would I need 4 times the wattage? On the same speakers. Or is that even close

:unsure:

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So if I wanted to double the volume, would I need 4 times the wattage? On the same speakers. Or is that even close

:unsure:

"Volume" is a construct from the very, very early days of audio that actually refered to the listening room volume in cubic feet. A bigger room required a higher setting of the newly named "volume" control.

"Loudness," and "Sound Pressure Level" (SPL) and acoustical and electrical watts are different, but somewhat correlated animals. "Loudness" is a perceptual/psychological thing. Google "equal loudness curves" and Fletcher and Munson.

To increase the SPL by 3 dB, you would need to double the wattage, but it won't sound anything at all like twice as loud. Instead, with complex signals -- like music -- it will sound like three just noticeable differences louder. Not all listeners will agree that it sounds three JNDs louder, but that is pretty much the average estimate. Most experiments have indicated that for something to sound twice as loud it will need to be about 10 dB higher in SPL. By coincidence, this works out to be about 10 times the wattage (as mentioned earlier, each 3 dB increase requires about 2 times the wattage).

In selecting amplifier power in watts with speakers as efficient as most Klipsch, IMO, the question is not how "loud" you want to play it as much as do you want to hear distortion when it is that loud. If the OP listens at 100 dB levels with Cornwalls, he is a little less likely to hear distortion with a 60 watt amp than with a 35 watt amp, even though the difference between 35 watts and 60 watts is less than 3 dB.

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Stickn' with my original story. I know Cornies are less efficient that K'horns, but my ST-70 drives those 'horns to completely dangerous and intolerable levels without breaking a sweat. If breaking windows and rattling china is the goal with the Cornies, you might have a bit of a problem...but I don't believe you'd ever reach serious clipping unless you really like to cause bleeding from the ears.

Dave

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my 60+wattx2 tube amp is way too much with my chorus...I never get beyond 1/3 a turn on the dial although you always wonder what can your speakers do...so i have went to about 2/3 turn and that about does it....

I would get the st70 likely just for the fact the st120 is cursed with issues. If the st120 was in very good working order(make sure you do examine either although the st120 is plagued with issues) i would consider it although yes in a lifetime nobody would ever turn the volume past halfway cept maybe once.

I have known and seen a lot of people with st70's that have questions what about more power that sell and go big. The people that have went to 1-3watt tube amps have already been down the high watt tube amps. Its a right of passage in a way.

Absolutely if you have 3-5 $$grand try a 3 watt(i would measure wattage and bet it would read more like about 12 watts per channel...i have a couple of them and they are fantastic) amp and pre....you will love the sound although wish you could here your speakers rock n roll...and if your into Pop(copied&pasted) as i do myself(i test gospel and listen to MJ and britney) then your gonna want some power. Iv had an st70... i dont any longer, i like to piss my neighbors off lol all of them.

Yes in many years from now i may have a 2 watt amp...I highly doubt it. I am accustomed to very loud music now and presume i always will...

Im here for discussion and appreciate all the ridicule i can get :D

Best to all...enjoy what you love!

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If he is going from solid state to tubes likely more watts will provide his want within the material he is used to listening with.

I did start out with a 12x12 amp and yes it soothed my want of good sound as well as the want for more watts to push the dynamics up dramatically. I have pushed my previous to now tube amp up to about 117db's...i was not stupid enough to go further from 5 ft away.

With solid state I know i can go well over the 117 as well as with tubes....he wants tubes obviously lol

Fact is is if he is wondering about needing more power then i can near guarantee he will want more than an st70...

I way prefer to stay within the boundaries of what the op was asking and other than discussing with you other comparison' he does wonder about more watts...that as well as his genre in material listening provide me point blank he wants watts not simple spl with minimal dynamics.

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Well, after all these years of solid statin, I'm ready to test out tubes in my home.

I really dig the look of the Dynaco (Bob Latino) models and my budget is $1,000 to $1,500, I'm just wonderin if the 35WPC ST70 will be enough to get my Cornwalls to dance. For $500 more clams, I can get the 60WPC ST120, will the ST70 do the trick or will the ST120 be a must?

My taste includes Rock, Pop,Country, and Jazz music.

Thanks fellas,

RIGGED

Just thought id bump the op's original post in case you forgot :)

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My ST-70 has no problem making my Cornwall sound amazing and I have plenty of room to spare with the volume knob.

My room is quite large and it still shakes the house.

-R

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who dont want to experience tubes at least once?

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I have few tube amps of various sizes... SET 1watt vs 100watt push pull.

All sound great... I cant say I have a pref but the 1 I play the most is my 1watt SET no feedback.

The cornwall is hyper-efficient... 1 watt is a wonderful size for smaller rooms or causal listening... Any Dynaco you chose from the ST35 (personal fav) to the ST-120 will rock... sound amazing) and will load even your floor joists.

If steping into tubes.... VTA offers a SCA35 (Dynacos only integrated which has some AMAZING updates.... REALY REALY REALY should consider unless you love your pre. (17watts is more thsan enough... just like 35watts is.) The ST35/SCA35 is well thought of in Dynaco circles.

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