Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.)

[cheric]

Thank you for the advise and recommendation. I just happen to have a pair of 12LFA and a pair of old H. Decorator cabs laying around.

[Marvel]

No. ; )

[ClaudeJ1]

No. ; )

Smarta$$es of the world UNITE!

[ClaudeJ1]

H1 and Super Heresy curves added in post #1

[ClaudeJ1]

Interesting Heresy mod.

Maybe you could get by without a subwoofer with this version.

Well they do sound amazing in my bedroom. I think I will try curves there at my listening spot, since we never listen from 1 Meter away from any speaker. The do have crazy strong BASS though. Not expected for sure.

[ClaudeJ1]

OK, so, I knew I wasn't hearing things when I said "slamming" bass and growling with all my test CD's. I finally ran some curves in my listening spot in my Bedroom, both speakers on. Look at that bass response in a real room!!

I have seen and heard $20,000 Palladiums all the way to $65,000 Wilson Audio speakers. Both have bass reflex ports in the REAR of the cabinet. I believe this allows the long wavelength coming out of the port to open up bounce off the walls. curve was done in the room where I've been listening. Jason, you were right, I will NOT needs subs with these SupaKilla Heresys. WOW!

No wonder I thought it sounded as good or better than a Cornwall. This thing goes BELOW 30 Hz.!! Now I realize there is lots of cabin gain at play here, but still impressive, eh?

I used 1/6th octave smoothing because we all know what no smoothing looks like, and this is more realistic to how we hear anyhow. yes, the tweeter is a bit hot at that spot, but my HF hearing is not so hot to compensate, LOL.

Edited May 30, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[ClaudeJ1]

After going back and looking at my "E" network modifications, I basically just created a Cornwall "B" network out of it. Interesting co-incidence, since it sounds like a "baby Cornwall" with the new drivers. in my particular room.

In no way am I trying to insinuate that this "super Heresy/baby Cornwall" is better than a Cornwall, which would trounce it in the bass department. But having a beefier woofer and a port brings the efficiency up to the same level and the ROOM itself picks kicks up the bass to a satisfying level, not the the speaker. It a combination of the two, which any speaker would have to deal with, not just this one.

Edited June 2, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[jason str]

OK, so, I knew I wasn't hearing things when I said "slamming" bass and growling with all my test CD's. I finally ran some curves in my listening spot in my Bedroom, both speakers on. Look at that bass response in a real room!!

I have seen and heard $20,000 Palladiums all the way to $65,000 Wilson Audio speakers. Both have bass reflex ports in the REAR of the cabinet. I believe this allows the long wavelength coming out of the port to open up bounce off the walls. curve was done in the room where I've been listening. Jason, you were right, I will NOT needs subs with these SupaKilla Heresys. WOW!

No wonder I thought it sounded as good or better than a Cornwall. This thing goes BELOW 30 Hz.!! Now I realize there is lots of cabin gain at play here, but still impressive, eh?

I used 1/6th octave smoothing because we all know what no smoothing looks like, and this is more realistic to how we hear anyhow. yes, the tweeter is a bit hot at that spot, but my HF hearing is not so hot to compensate, LOL.

SuperHeresy8x8x8StereoBR.jpg

How big is your room Claude ? Is there hallways or other open areas ?

Just trying to get an idea of the space you took the readings in.

[ClaudeJ1]

How big is your room Claude ? Is there hallways or other open areas ? Just trying to get an idea of the space you took the readings in.

 

 

Speakers against a 12 1/2 foot wall. Room depth 14 ft. to back well where my headboard is, which then opens to a 3 x 15 ft. hallway. This is something I never expected from such a small box, so I'm sure it's mostly the room and corner placement on right with with near corner placement on left also (3ft from corner 1/2 bath door needs to open). The following Room Simulation Wizard should serve to explain the 40 Hz. peak that was measured. at the spot with the "head" symbol/mike placement. Since I measured most of the bass coming out of the rear ports before I put these in the room, I basically modeled them as a 30-150 Hz. sub and measured the exact location of the ports against the wall. I would say the model AND the measurements agree. This means that all the great bass I'm hearing from such a small box is the ROOM peaks compensating for the weaker bass of the higher BL K-42. So from a total "systems approach" of which, the room is 90% of the sound below 300 Hz. I'd say the system simply WORKS.

Edited February 11, 2016 by ClaudeJ1

[ClaudeJ1]

It's real easy to see from this, that the ROOM is the dominant player in the bass, not so much the speaker itself below 300 Hz. This is why I like big magnet woofer, that are perhaps, weaker in the low bass but stronger in the midrange transient response to match the super fast mid horns of Klipsch speakers. Bass is too easy to get with room EQ and subs these days, which was not the case when PWK was designing speakers.

[Heritage_Head]

This is really cool. Nice job!

[Sancho Panza]

Those do look mighty nice!

Seems I've seen pics of a bottom ported Heresy, like Cornwall before.

Edited June 2, 2014 by Sancho Panza

[Schu]

I'm wondering how the size of the port in the rear was determined?

[ClaudeJ1]

I'm wondering how the size of the port in the rear was determined?

Bass Box Pro, two Internet calculators, and measuring the port on a Klipsh HIP speaker, which is really close to one of the calculated values, all of them agreed. Also I measured the actual woofers T/S parameters. I just converted the numbers and found an exact equivalent round port that was available from Parts express for $5 a pair. The close up port measurement verifies port ouput boost from inverted rear radiation in the 30-150 Hz. range (see the curves in the first post), where the woofer, by itself would falloff if the box were sealed. I added lots of padding to kill off everything but pure bass coming out of the port.

the HIP Network (Heresy Industrial Ported) is basically the same as a Khorn/LaScala AA network except for an 8 uF cap (for the K-700 horn) instead of a 13 uf, which is the proper value for a K-400 horn. The HIP was designed to play really loud for PA use with subwoofers, since it used the same mid and treble drivers as a Khorn. This also the reason why I prefer Heresy 1's for modding. You can ask Bob Crites about the HIP.

For home use, I preferred a "B" Cornwall network, which drops the mid and tweet output down 3 db lower than the HIP and give a much better top to bottom balance. The curves in a real room, prove it along with my ears and test CD's.

Edited June 2, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[Schu]

Interesting... does decreasing the internal volume with padding have any extension effects?

[ClaudeJ1]

Interesting... does decreasing the internal volume with padding have any extension effects?

I don't know. I didn't measure or listen without. I have heard a HIP many years ago. I distinctly remember I didn't like the sound of the upper frequency part of the woofer's rear output bouncing around the unpadded box and coming out of the front port. That speaker was designed for max ouput above 100 Hz. So, yes, I think that adding padding may have contributed to the box performing like a bigger box in some fashion, but I didn't do a delta. I just went for it and I'm happy with the results for now. I may drop the tweeter back down a bit later on because it exaggerates sibilant aspects of all vocal recordings or radio interviews.

Edited June 20, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[ClaudeJ1]

Those do look mighty nice!

Seems I've seen pics of a bottom ported Heresy, like Cornwall before.

Yes, it was a ported Industrial Heresy that was as loud as a Khorn from about 200 Hz on up.

[Max2]

So...why wasn't the Heresy ported all along?

[ClaudeJ1]

So...why wasn't the Heresy ported all along?

That was a Klipsch management decision and beyond the scope of my text. Probably based on way higher cost to make and the fact that a Cornwall was available, so not to compete with it. It cost me way over $1,000 to make a pair of Super Heresy's.

Edited June 20, 2014 by ClaudeJ1

[moray james]

Interesting... does decreasing the internal volume with padding have any extension effects?

The short answer is yes it does. If for what ever reason you actually decrease the volume of your cabinet you will diminish bass response/extension. What material you damp with is critical. With the right material and quantity you will optimize bass extension, quality of the bass and eliminate unwanted frequencies generated by the loudspeaker and also kill standing waves within the cabinet.

Damping material is intended to fool the loudspeaker into thinking that the cabinet volume is larger than it actually is, this helps you to extract deeper bass from your cabinet/speaker combination. In theory you can increase the apparent cabinet volume by up to about 25%, in practice it is difficult to achieve much more than around 20 - 22%. The other thing that internal cabinet damping will do is to eat up reflecting mid frequencies made by the woofer (that you don't want to hear) from bouncing out of a reflex vent or exiting via the woofer cone itself. If you damp with materials which are not effective at low frequencies then you will only eat up valuable cabinet volume and make matters worse (less bass). A good example of this is when people hard pack a cabinet with polyfil and complain that the bass has disappeared. Plolyfil is a very poor choice of damping material at low frequencies. One of the very best damping materials at low frequencies is High Density fiber glass like Owens Corning 700 series. Hope this helps. Best regards Moray James.