Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.)

[jimjimbo]

You are welcome, have fun with the project.  It's very worthwhile.

[DizRotus]

37 minutes ago, ishwash said:

Very clear...thanks jimjimbo...I had messaged Claude yesterday, but I sort dribbled stuff into him, which can be a bit irritating on the receiving end of messages...smile...I hope he was just busy. I better message him again and tell him you answered my questions...and that he need not respond.

 

@ClaudeJ1

 

Consider it done.

[ClaudeJ1]

6 hours ago, ishwash said:

Very clear...thanks jimjimbo...I had messaged Claude yesterday, but I sort dribbled stuff into him, which can be a bit irritating on the receiving end of messages...smile...I hope he was just busy. I better message him again and tell him you answered my questions...and that he need not respond.

Been off the computer............moving a ton of speakers, and half a ton of other stuff, along with all my house stuff. You can easily convert a C network to a B using existing parts, you just need new capacitors.

[ishwash]

Post deleted

 

[jimjimbo]

Type E crossovers become available on the bay quite often.

[ClaudeJ1]

14 hours ago, ishwash said:

Hi Claude , I'll prob either get the B's or watch ebay for some Heresy crossovers that I can convert.

 

I want to end up with an extra set of B equivalents because I am trying to improve my Speakerlab 7's which originally were equipped with the same Klipsch tweeter as Klipsch used in so many of his speakers. The mids are Atlas, don't know the model, but they have a metal strap going over the top of the driver and the horn has a smaller throat dia than the ones in the Heresy, but the K-55V will screw into it. Crites called it a fire house mid, hahaha, I think he was implying I should get rid of it...but its my old friend, I can't do that, smile.

 

I had jumped out sort of arbitrarily and bought those tweeters and mids from Crites thinking that they might help the 7's, but they were so loud over the dual 10 and 12" woofers in the 7's that they drove me nuts listening to them, so am putting the working originals back into the 7's which freed up those Crites items to use elsewhere.

 

It also seems to me that if the Super Heresy mods work so well, I should be able to use the mod in my Speakerlab 7, put the same 12" woofer that you use in the Heresy in the SL 7' and if there is a 10 woofer (the 7's had both a 10 and a 12" woofer in them, don't ask me why they did that, but it is possible that they reasoned that it would have the same total woofer area as a 15" woofer) anyway if there is a 10" woofer available by that manuf that is the same model as the 12" that the two woofers would make a winner out of my SL 7's, if I install a B crossover as well...and if there is NOT a 10" woofer that is an equal to your 12", I'd just take the 10 out of the 7's and blank off its hole, and it becomes a Big Box Super Heresy! 

 

I presume you are going to tell me that I should have left the Crites stuff in the 7's and rework its crossover to attenuate the mids a bit, ain't ya! I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous!

 

@ClaudeJ1 Okay well obviously I don't know how to tag this for him...

Dost thou presume too much??

 

The word "improve" also means you have to PROVE that it works. You can't truly make any improvements with half hazard methods of swapping parts. My Super Heresy was done with careful simulation with 3 different software programs, calculations, and MEASUREMENTS. Plus, except for the tweeters (and capacitors), I used all Klipsch parts. Final LISTENING test to confirm all the above was done, then more MEASUREMENT in the exact ROOM I specified with the exact POSITION information. Also with several other opinions from other pairs of ears, the sound was deemed to be an improvement (right Jim Jimbo?) Only then did I publish my modifications here. Any deviation from the progressive methods outline here would result in a different compromise. DIFFERENT is not the same. I have said this many times on this forum.

 

This is a Klipsch forum, so based on the Crites Parts that you have, you should concentrate on building Super Heresy's with those parts and NOT refurbishing your Speakerlabs here, which belongs elsewhere, quite frankly.  To quote a famous Chef, the dish will not taste the same unless you follow the recipe exactly. Otherwise you are creating a different dish.

[ishwash]

Post deleted.

[ClaudeJ1]

post deleted

[jimjimbo]

A great deal of the beauty of the Super Heresy mod is that Claude did it with Klipsch parts, and the port mod, crossover mod, and addition of internal foam came as a result of much research and testing by Claude.  And then he published his methodology for all to try.    No one has to like it, but I haven''t heard of anyone that doesn't.....I have the original pair, and I have built 5 others that I have given away/sold to others that were totally amazed with their sound.  I have 4 others in the queue.....

 

If you want to try and substitute parts, and configurations and crossover settings, that's fine, that's on you.  Publish your findings.  Perhaps others will want to try them.

 

Cranky?  You don't know cranky.....

 

 

[TFR1]

I only want to jump in to say that after hearing Claude's Super Heresy's at Jim's 3 months ago, I was just completely amazed at the sound.

Claude has been generous in offering design information that has allowed me to construct my own Super Heresy's. They sound great!

@ClaudeJ1 and @jimjimbo made all of this possible. All I had to do was follow instructions.

 

Jerry

 

 

[ishwash]

I have nothing but respect for you, Claude,  and I don't want to cause a problem with anyone here. I just felt talked down to.

 

I bought a pair of old Heresy's two, three days ago with the soul purpose of doing your mods and using the SH's as a 2.1 speaker system for my TV. It is great that you published your mods for others to use. My going into a hairy, long winded discussion of my Speakerlabs was to explain how I came about the Crites stuff and my reasoning that your mods should work on my Speakerlabs; I absolutely see no reason that it shouldn't, but the post wasn't meant as a request for approval or assistance from you, I was just thinking out loud.

[ClaudeJ1]

11 hours ago, ishwash said:

I have nothing but respect for you, Claude,  and I don't want to cause a problem with anyone here. I just felt talked down to.

 

I bought a pair of old Heresy's two, three days ago with the soul purpose of doing your mods and using the SH's as a 2.1 speaker system for my TV. It is great that you published your mods for others to use. My going into a hairy, long winded discussion of my Speakerlabs was to explain how I came about the Crites stuff and my reasoning that your mods should work on my Speakerlabs; I absolutely see no reason that it shouldn't, but the post wasn't meant as a request for approval or assistance from you, I was just thinking out loud.

Got it. No problem, no worries. All good here. There's not such thing as 100% communication. Peace on Easter Sunday, not April Fool's.

[ishwash]

Smile, and the Peace of Christ to you and all else here!

[ClaudeJ1]

This is my response to an HIP inquiry:

 

In terms of the HIP speaker, I never owned or modified one, all I can offer is opinion, with no measurement of listening to back it up. HOWEVER, as I said earlier  in my Super Heresy thread that the AREA of the port was fairly close to what I ended up with using the cheap one from Parts Express in the rear. Having the port in FRONT is still radically DIFFERENT from having it in the rear and bouncing off the wall or corner as an "acoustic amplifier" of sorts. You are on your own with that one. But to a lesser degree, I think it might work, as long as everything else is the same as my recipe. The only thing I could never address in the original thread is the amount of bass that satisfies the individual listener, much like "how much salt do you like in your soup." You own the taste buds!!

Yes, starting at 300 hz., the lower you go in frequency, the more the room dimensions, aspect ratio, room openings, etc. affect the MODES relative to, not only speaker placement, but LISTENING POSITION.

 

I'm sure the front port will work. I arrived at the Part Express Port by 3 calculations, in 3 different softwares, then went back and looked at the HI dimensions, and Lo and Behold, they are within a few percent of each other. 

 

My port ended up in the rear simply because it's the only place it would fit and the BASS was a huge bonus, since I was trying to get a "faster/sharper/more detailed" midrange out of the mod, knowing I'd have to port it to get at least SOME of the bass back, since using a higher BL product woofer (bigger magnet), creates thinner bass if the cabinet were to remain sealed. Klipsch designed the HI to be as loud as possible above 150 Hz. since PA guys typically use subwoofers below that, which is why the HI is as loud as a LaScala.

 

So the "Baby Cornwall" performance and the resultant Cornwall B network was an co-incidental evolution when I chose the proper capacitance for the change in the T2A Autoformer. When I plugged it into a cheap Kenwood receiver in my bedroom at the time, I could not believe how low the bass was, so I measured it. The rest is in the thread, as you know.

 

 

[DizRotus]

Claude-

 

As I said in an email, I have a pair of HIP that I'm thinking of modifying.  It occurs to me that round PE ports could be put in the back panels.  Then dense closed cell foam plugs could be made in rectangular and round shapes so the the enclosures could be relatively quickly converted from sealed, to front ported, to rear ported.  IIRC, EV sold a speaker with a removable foam plug.

 

What do you think?

 

[ClaudeJ1]

13 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Claude-

 

As I said in an email, I have a pair of HIP that I'm thinking of modifying.  It occurs to me that round PE ports could be put in the back panels.  Then dense closed cell foam plugs could be made in rectangular and round shapes so the the enclosures could be relatively quickly converted from sealed, to front ported, to rear ported.  IIRC, EV sold a speaker with a removable foam plug.

 

What do you think?

 

Capital idea, chap!

 

[ClaudeJ1]

Just a thought on this HIP thing.............before you cut a hole in the rear,  for the "Super Heresy PORT," you may want to try converting to a Heresy 1 Type E Network, with a Cornwall B2 woofer section. This would balance/increase the bass output from the front port relative to the mid/tweet section. I would allow for placement right up against a wall, which, you cant really do with a Super Heresy, since you'd be choking off the rear port. Either way, use lots of insulation in the box, like I did, to kill the excess midrangeoutpus from the woofer bouncing around the box.

[ishwash]

Okay, Claude, I finished my Super Heresy project on the old Heresy 1's I found. Kept the tweeter and squawker, and did all the other mods you suggest...woofer, egg packing, fiberglass, and ports and converted the crossover from C to B. Just finished today. The wife did the renew of the surface...these were shabby looking suckers before she did her magic. Course I was up to my old trick of not taking  before pics. Anyway, one of the little Heresy's shows in the picture. Recovered fronts with Crites cloth. Moved the tweeter and squawker up one number on the autotransformer, as well, as was suggested..

 

They sound fabulous! Clarity of upper frequencies is startling. Bass is excellent. Your mods make these little dudes rival anything I have. I won't be going back into them and changing anything. Was obvious with only one playing of Chris Stapleton's "Outlaw State of Mind"!

[ClaudeJ1]

19 hours ago, ishwash said:

They sound fabulous! Clarity of upper frequencies is startling. Bass is excellent. Your mods make these little dudes rival anything I have. I won't be going back into them and changing anything. Was obvious with only one playing of Chris Stapleton's "Outlaw State of Mind"!

Thanks for sharing your success.

[ishwash]

Couple of comments on the mods (the first comment may only apply to the Heresy I which is the model I used):

 

When adding the four additional screws for the heavier woofer, you will have to take the grill cloth off. Be sure to drill the four new holes with a drill bit that is sized to be near the root diameter of the threads for these new screws. Then when they are screwed into the motor board they will become studs of a sort and will hopefully be tight enough to secure the nut to the screw without the screw turning inside the motor board because when you install the new woofer to the motor board you will have probably already reinstalled the grill cloth, and the heads of these screws will no longer be accessible.  Also the screw shafts need to have threads that go the full length of the screw all the way to its tapered head. Don't ask me which drill bit I used because when I finally realized its importance, I had already assembled the speaker and the bit's identity was lost amongst my ratty batch of assorted drill sizes...sorry...but never fret, you can figure out which bit to use, just like I did, hold the bit and the screw up to the sky and choose a bit that matches the root (or minimum) diameter of the thread.

 

Also, I didn't put a screen across the port to keep mud daubers, spiders, mice, whatnot out of the speaker. As a result, I probably will never use my speakers in my shop or on my porch, not that I may never have a mouse in my house, are you kidding, owners of Klipsch speakers don't have mouses in their houses...but you may want to consider what a wonderful home you have made for critters with all the fiberglass that was installed. You may want to think about how you are going to use your great little speakers with regard to the question of screening the port.