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Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.)


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On 6/19/2018 at 12:42 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

If I may throw in the term "diminishing returns" into the modification hat, I would wait until new measurements before spending more money, since your speaker PLACEMENT might have impact on the midrange and upper treble as well as the 96 Hz. bass hump. Below 50 Hz. the size of your ROOMS are the culprit, so your may be better off investing in tapped horn components for 100% return in the super low bass area rather than get new tweeters, Autoformers, and chokes to chase another 2-3% improvement, which certainly would NOT be as audible as the Sub. For $200-250 investment in a driver and  2 sheets of 3/4 Plywood (or MDF if your really want to cheap out), you can literally rock the house and maintain the lower distortion you are now enjoying in the Super Heresys. It's also an easy assembly of 11 pieces, most of which are rip cuts.

 

PS: The reason I initially said to leave the original Autoformer settings alone the first time is because another member had already modded some 1.5 Heresys (mine were Heresy 1's). His feedback from the mod was the mid was too hot, which, obviously didn't turn out to be the case for you and I. This is why we all must consider the variables of Rooms, PLACEMENT, and individual HEARING as part of the equation. In my case, it's "in Curves we trust" everything else is personal taste and opinions. I'm looking forward to the new curves also. I'll be able to do an overlay so we can PRECISELY see what your evolutionary mod has done.

 

OTOH, when the number of listeners with positive feedback gets up into the dozens and dozens, like has happened with this mod over 4 years, it does boost a potential new modder's confidence in the investment quite a bit. I believe in precision and repeatability as new, subtle variables come along.

 

Regarding the ‘Law of diminishing returns’ comment. I agree. Throwing money to chase a small gain, may not be the way to go. Especially when these speakers are sounding better to me everyday. Really really impressed with where they are. Sometimes I’ll be zoned out listening, lost in the music, and I’ll remember ‘Jesus...that sound is coming from Heresy’s!!!? Lol 

I’ll most certainly be building a TH subwoofer like we discussed. I do agree that’s a MUCH better use of time and money, especially in my not so perfect listening room/rooms.

Thats another thing people should be aware of, the room these are in is not the best room around. The wall that the right speaker is along, opens after about 7 ft into 2 rooms, a kitchen and ‘dining’ room. It’s an “open concept” layout. So Claude is spot on when he describes my bass issues below 50hz. 

I was worried this layout would effect the SH more than it did. It’s effecting it in the bass, but they sound STRONG still. In a ‘normal room’, whatever that is. ;) these would RATTLE the foundation! 

Also, if I wasn’t a raging audioholic, I could leave these SH and be just fine.  Claude brought up TH subwoofers, and well.....WHY NOT?! Lol I’m excited to pair one with the SH.

Had two very talented musician freinds over last night, these guys know music and are top tier players locally. They were amazed how good the SH sounded. Couldn’t believe the sound was coming from them. The lack of distortion is unreal, transient response is down right spooky real!

listening to a Stan Getz album, the horns in ‘The Girl From Ipanema’ were IN THE ROOM, the sound of ‘air and spit’, from the horn players mouths were as if you were on stage....we just laughed in awe! 

One offered to buy the SH, I politely turned him down. Wait, no I didn’t, he’s an old friend. I told him come up a bit or jump in a lake!lol it wasn’t enough $ for me, at this time. Though he’s on the lookout for a set, so I can help him do the same. I think that says a lot about this Speaker in its current form.

I’ve got pretty decent amplification and front end components, but NO speaker has done this with them. I’ve got about a dozen sets of ‘audiophile’ grade speakers. From really good companies, that we aren’t here to talk about. These Klipsch are my favorite....hands down. I’ve been feverishly searching for a nice set of LaScalas, to replace the set I sold a year and a half ago, at a fire sale rate.(my best friend Ernie, my dog, needed surprise surgery. He’s good now, so it was worth it) 

However, LaScalas are so damn beautiful, I need em back!!! Lol I’m still looking and will get a set, but I’m in no rush now. I’ll probably end up with them pretty cheap after I move a few sets of speakers that I don’t need anymore. A set of “British Space Heaters” come to mind. Lol ;)

 

Well, I’ll update again with any changes or the curves when we get them. I keep writing these novel for posts. Hope it adds something that helps someone debating the mod. It’s 100% worth it. I have zero regret. 

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1 hour ago, Treyphan said:

. . . he’s on the lookout for a set, 

 

I will have a pair available soon.  When I finish converting HIPs into SH, those will be my second pair and one pair will become available.  It’s difficult to get schedules to mesh but we ( @ClaudeJ1, you and me) should try to get together.

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1 hour ago, DizRotus said:

 

I will have a pair available soon.  When I finish converting HIPs into SH, those will be my second pair and one pair will become available.  It’s difficult to get schedules to mesh but we ( @ClaudeJ1, you and me) should try to get together.

 

Hey Diz!

 

Well that sounds great, I’ll pass that info along.It would be great for him, and me lol, to be able to just pickup a set already done! When yours become available. Saves time!

I hear ya about schedules, but I’m sure we can figure something out!

Im always game for meeting fellow local

Klipscheads

 

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Had a forum member PM me about this sub. Since it will benefit LaScala and Super Heresy user as "best bang for the buck," and super easy to build, here it is. You can also use a JBL GTO 1214 (less than $100) besides the original Eminence LAB 12 for about half the price. I built mine out of Oak Veneer Plywood and called it a coffee table sub. I sold it Gnote, to go with his MCM 1900 (big pro stuff) and it kept up. He was also a huge fan of Jim Jimbo's Super Heresys (my originals) when he heard them at a Klipschead get together in Chicago. This picture is from one of the original builders on another forum. I don't like the way he ran the wire and the trap door is not necessary since you can install the woofer from the horn mouth and run the wire out of it or do a terminal cup in the small cavity at the bottom center and drill a small wire hole for a much shorter wire near the mouth.

IMG_0971.jpg

LAB12THdim.jpg

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Hijacking here, sorry Claude. In my infinite wisdom I arbitrarily decided to post this here. Heresy 1's are maybe getting more expensive due to the demand Claude is creating. I just thought I would point out a way to repair those pretty badly damaged ones that will be a bit cheaper to purchase.

 

How I had to do a pair of bad ones I bought:

For corner damage and edge repair, I use two little "form-like" pieces made from foam PVC, a sign-board product, regular PVC sheeting would be fine too. I use a corner form and an edge form, shown in my pic. The edge form can be made longer if you need longer for lengthy edge damage. For repair material, I use either Bondo's wood repair or Minwax's, they are both two-part, epoxy-style wood repair compounds that have to sit overnight for curing.

 

To ready my little form, I cover the interior with a coat of paste wax before I mix up a batch of repair compound. Then I mix a glob  of the compound up and trowel whatever I feel is needed to fill the void into the interior of the form. Quickly place it on the area that needs to be fixed and then I holler "HEAL THYSELF"! In a few minutes you can remove the form only (the paste wax allows it to release cleanly from the batch of compound). You can now admire your work. The new corner or edge that you repaired should be ready for sanding the next day.

 

Everything has a drawback or two. The newly fixed places will not take sealer equal to the rest of your cabinet (this is true with any wood repair material though, isn't it)?...maybe other folks have a way of handling this, I don't. With my bad cabinets, I opted to black lacquer them, with black lacquer you don't have to stain, you just start spraying black lacquer onto all surfaces. You could paint them and use shellac, which some can be brushed on, some of the lacquers can be brushed on as well, Deft, I think.

 

Weird! The corner form looks like a cube; its really not a cube, it is a three-piece, three-sided corner; it will fit right onto the corner of your cabinet. A pic of my black-lacquered Super Heresy 1's is also included. There is a fourth, and it looks just like the others, it was simply in another room. Yeah, I threw away the old screw connections for the speakers and used the banana-style. The bad cabinet Heresy's are in the foreground pf the pic.20180621_091217.thumb.jpg.52c3caaf103bbdb653872439991ff53b.jpg20180620_060038.thumb.jpg.72b96d6e46b1571a3eceef068b3c8a9d.jpg

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6 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Had a forum member PM me about this sub. Since it will benefit LaScala and Super Heresy user as "best bang for the buck," and super easy to build, here it is.

IMG_0971.jpg

LAB12THdim.jpg

 

 

::::::drool::::::

 

I cant wait to build it! Gonna look perfect in my room! :)

Is it the normal Eminence Lab 12 driver? Or the 12c?

 

Also, is that a ‘window’ for lack of better description in the cabinet behind the woofer?  A

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2 hours ago, Treyphan said:

Is it the normal Eminence Lab 12 driver? Or the 12c?

I'd have to ask Jerry at Eminence, but in looking at the data, the original LAB 12 driver is a little more efficient (about 1/3 of a db) and they model the same in the Tapped Horn. I suspect the "C" version (all Eminence drivers with the "C" designation are 4 ohms) was done for the car sub crowd that wanted American Made Twin 12's in parallel for a 2 ohm load for car amps so they could ruin their hearing, make their presence known at any stop light or neighborhood, vibrate their vehicles apart, all while pissing off everyone and showing off their sound effects (not HiFi) for their friends. Now if I sound like an old fart, I'm actually a Young Fart with a sense of humor (thank you very much), and former DB Freak from the 70's. I know better now, but some people never evolve from Neanderthal behavior.

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On ‎6‎/‎19‎/‎2018 at 8:06 PM, ishwash said:

 

Believe it or not, my reamer did not badly splinter the outer nor the inner ply of the Russian birch used for 2 of my Super Heresy projects, the other two were veneered ones and the veneer was not particularly harmed either, although the quality of the cut is not what would be desired for a speaker hole. A router is sort of difficult and even dangerous to use without a jig, even with a router table if you don't have a circle jig...make the plunge cut and then try to follow a marked line of a circle without it going south and jumping out of the hole or off the table and doing all sorts of bad things. One must use a circle cutting router jig, right? Course the problem there is unless you have a fully equipped shop and almost every imaginable tool for it, you will still probably have to cut your circle jig, using an inferior method,, that stupid jig saw.

 

Course this particular operation involves the back of the speaker, right, and it  doesn't have to look perfect, in fact the flare of the plastic tube will cover-up a shabby-looking hole, and there is silicone impregnated caulk also if the hole doesn't turn out well.

 

I'd be very interested in knowing how folks handle making their motor boards, cutting large speaker holes and having them turn out to be "aces"

I used a jig saw and filled it with silicone caulk. ugly on the inside, the outside works perfect and looks fine.

 

Mark

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6 hours ago, Treyphan said:

I do agree that’s a MUCH better use of time and money, especially in my not so perfect listening room/rooms.

Thats another thing people should be aware of, the room these are in is not the best room around. The wall that the right speaker is along, opens after about 7 ft into 2 rooms, a kitchen and ‘dining’ room. It’s an “open concept” layout. So Claude is spot on when he describes my bass issues below 50hz. 

I was worried this layout would effect the SH more than it did. It’s effecting it in the bass, but they sound STRONG still. In a ‘normal room’, whatever that is. ;) these would RATTLE the foundation! 

When I did the original curves in my Indy house bedroom, I got a boost from 30-50 Hz. from the room itself. I would consider that a reasonably "normal" bedroom for an older home. Where I live now, the rooms are even smaller yet since the house if from 1944 and not 1964. "Average" American homes have gotten larger and larger over they years, so the term "normal" doesn't apply to homes or the Average Klipschead, LOL. I'm pretty sure most people who do the Super Heresy mod will be using it in a living room similar to yours, as opposed to a small bedroom where the original curves were made and I discovered an astonishing amount of response at 30 Hz., which is what blew my mind then.

 

So if a room acoustic boost at 30 hz. (rare) like I had is not part of the equation, then a "coffee table" subwoofer provides a reasonably priced opportunity to extend the bass lower than any other Klipsch Heritage product, including the venerable Klipschorn, in any "normal" living room, without requiring time delays in the electronics, using about 5 watts of power and much lower distortion that would be had from the SH alone. From a frequency bandwidth extension point of view, it's................Divide and Conquer!!! Here's a shot of my original build back in 2011 in the basement of my rental condo. Believe me when I say I have owned many different horns in the last 11 years and I'm not done yet. It's good disease to have. Like a Cornwall or Super Heresy (or any other vented enclosure), the driver is "flapping in the breeze" below horn/box cutoff, so if you are going to use a higher power amplifier, you need to High Pass filter this thing below 17 Hz. Otherwise your risk of "clanging" the voice coil against the metal frame with over excursion outside the horn's air load frequency. 

IMG_0068.JPG

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46 minutes ago, ZEUS121996 said:

I used a jig saw and filled it with silicone caulk. ugly on the inside, the outside works perfect and looks fine.

 

Mark

hahaha, I think you just described me maybe in reverse.

 

Refreshing answer, Mark, you d'man!

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I will present this mod in incremental steps:
For the bass improvement: order this flared port (cheap) https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-cabinet-port-tube-4-id-x-4-l-flared--260-403 and cut the appropriate size hole in the rear bottom corner.  
Remove the K-22 woofer and replace with K-42-K, ordered from Klipsch parts or an Eminence Delta Pro 12A from Parts Express if you don't have a serial number on the back of your old Heresy Cabinets. You should use 8 screws per woofer instead of just 4, since the magnet is huge on the K-42 and very heavy. The woofer weighs almost 20 lbs. and more screws are cheap insurance. You will need #10, 1 1/4" screws since the cast woofer frame is thicker than the K22 you are removing.
Put foam on all surfaces inside the cabinet to absorb and keep the rear generated midrange stuff from bouncing around.
You will need to increase the K55 idrange and tweeter output by 3 db to match the more efficient woofer.
I have an "E" network, so I changed the first capacitor going to the autoformer from 2 uf. to a 4 uf. You can buy a new cap, or just solder two 2 uf. capacitor in parallel (which will give you 4 uf) on top of each other there now if your network was refreshed. If not replace those old fat original capacitors with the following: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dmpc-20-20uf-250v-polypropylene-capacitor--027-414
Unsolder the wires from terminal 2 (K55V midrange position) and 3 (tweeter position). Now solder the midrange wire that was on terminal #2 onto #3. Those of you with "D" networks should reverse the leads going to the K55V driver.
Take the K-77 tweeter wire and solder it to terminal #4 on the autoformer. This should have been unused before.
For a tweeter that stomps a K-77 and is worth every penny, do what I did to get those sweet, flat tweeter portions of my curves and superior definition on cymbals and harmonics of all instruments.
Go to ALK Engineering's web site and order the super tweeter made by Fastlane Audio for the B&C120 driver, or for a cheaper alternative that still fits, get the DE-10 (after measuring and using both, I prefer this over the more expensive DE-120). It comes pre-mounted, but you will have to cut the corners to fit into a Heresy cabinet on top of a K-700 horn. You can just do it with a coping saw or hacksaw blade. Takes about 5 minutes to do. Also you will need longer screws for the woofer and tweeter so make a trip to the hardware store.





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I will present this mod in incremental steps:
For the bass improvement: order this flared port (cheap) https://www.parts-express.com/speaker-cabinet-port-tube-4-id-x-4-l-flared--260-403 and cut the appropriate size hole in the rear bottom corner.  
Remove the K-22 woofer and replace with K-42-K, ordered from Klipsch parts or an Eminence Delta Pro 12A from Parts Express if you don't have a serial number on the back of your old Heresy Cabinets. You should use 8 screws per woofer instead of just 4, since the magnet is huge on the K-42 and very heavy. The woofer weighs almost 20 lbs. and more screws are cheap insurance. You will need #10, 1 1/4" screws since the cast woofer frame is thicker than the K22 you are removing.
Put foam on all surfaces inside the cabinet to absorb and keep the rear generated midrange stuff from bouncing around.
You will need to increase the K55 idrange and tweeter output by 3 db to match the more efficient woofer.
I have an "E" network, so I changed the first capacitor going to the autoformer from 2 uf. to a 4 uf. You can buy a new cap, or just solder two 2 uf. capacitor in parallel (which will give you 4 uf) on top of each other there now if your network was refreshed. If not replace those old fat original capacitors with the following: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-dmpc-20-20uf-250v-polypropylene-capacitor--027-414
Unsolder the wires from terminal 2 (K55V midrange position) and 3 (tweeter position). Now solder the midrange wire that was on terminal #2 onto #3. Those of you with "D" networks should reverse the leads going to the K55V driver.
Take the K-77 tweeter wire and solder it to terminal #4 on the autoformer. This should have been unused before.
For a tweeter that stomps a K-77 and is worth every penny, do what I did to get those sweet, flat tweeter portions of my curves and superior definition on cymbals and harmonics of all instruments.
Go to ALK Engineering's web site and order the super tweeter made by Fastlane Audio for the B&C120 driver, or for a cheaper alternative that still fits, get the DE-10 (after measuring and using both, I prefer this over the more expensive DE-120). It comes pre-mounted, but you will have to cut the corners to fit into a Heresy cabinet on top of a K-700 horn. You can just do it with a coping saw or hacksaw blade. Takes about 5 minutes to do. Also you will need longer screws for the woofer and tweeter so make a trip to the hardware store.

Is there any other ideas for the ports? Would it be OK for the port to be in the center in the back. I will need to move the speaker inputs. I don’t have room to put the ports off to the lower corners.


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16 hours ago, Terry Palmer said:


Is there any other ideas for the ports? Would it be OK for the port to be in the center in the back. I will need to move the speaker inputs. I don’t have room to put the ports off to the lower corners.


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As Claude said, “put it wherever it fits”.

 

As some food for thought, make sure there is enough clearance between the magnet of the woofer and the port. I would guess it’s deep eough. But it’s a guess, Claude may know for sure. 

 

I can pop pop the back off mine when I get home and measure. I might be way off base.

 

also, you can move the x-overs to accommodate the ports in the corners, if that’s your issue. I moved mine. As have others.

 

I also added new 5 way Binding Posts, they are a bit overkill, but cool. They do make swapping amps way easier. I run a Restored Carver M1.5t sometimes, though for the HIGHLY sensitive SH at right around 100db efficieny the Carver is way to much with its conservatively rated 350 Watts p/chan RMS 8 ohm rating. Can barely turn the volume, and can’t get to the ‘meat’ of it. So my signal to noise suffers in that setup. Which I why they belong together with the 240.

 

Attached is a photo of my rear panels , FYI, I made new rear panels, using thicker Baltic birch. This was to maintain the original panels condition, Incase I ever sold them(which i don’t see happening and I already sold the K22 woofers. No way they were ever going back in lol) and to add ‘strength’ to the cabinet. Not sure of the actual effects. But they look cool! Can’t hurt either l. Lol

 

also note the position of the Super Heresy in the below pic IS NOT how I run them. It’s just how they are for the moment. I scored a set of speakers I’ve always wanted for a dirt cheap price Thursday. They are what the Super Heresy are resting on. 

But they are a different manufacturer and that not what this forum is about. 

My Fiancee wanted to hear the ‘new’ speakers with  the MC240. And I don’t like moving that bohemith peice of Iron unless my clumsy a$$ has to! Lol

just didn’t want anyone thinking that’s how measurements were take or that I’m listening in that fashion. 

The SH will take their rightful place alone in that system before the sun falls today!

 

still way impressed with this Mod. 

7F1CA20C-3BCC-4F2F-BEB9-61620FC595CD.jpeg

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As Claude said, “put it wherever it fits”.
 
As some food for thought, make sure there is enough clearance between the magnet of the woofer and the port. I would guess it’s deep eough. But it’s a guess, Claude may know for sure. 
 
I can pop pop the back off mine when I get home and measure. I might be way off base.
 
also, you can move the x-overs to accommodate the ports in the corners, if that’s your issue. I moved mine. As have others.
 
I also added new 5 way Binding Posts, they are a bit overkill, but cool. They do make swapping amps way easier. I run a Restored Carver M1.5t sometimes, though for the HIGHLY sensitive SH at right around 100db efficieny the Carver is way to much with its conservatively rated 350 Watts p/chan RMS 8 ohm rating. Can barely turn the volume, and can’t get to the ‘meat’ of it. So my signal to noise suffers in that setup. Which I why they belong together with the 240.
 
Attached is a photo of my rear panels , FYI, I made new rear panels, using thicker Baltic birch. This was to maintain the original panels condition, Incase I ever sold them(which i don’t see happening and I already sold the K22 woofers. No way they were ever going back in lol) and to add ‘strength’ to the cabinet. Not sure of the actual effects. But they look cool! Can’t hurt either l. Lol
 
also note the position of the Super Heresy in the below pic IS NOT how I run them. It’s just how they are for the moment. I scored a set of speakers I’ve always wanted for a dirt cheap price Thursday. They are what the Super Heresy are resting on. 
But they are a different manufacturer and that not what this forum is about. 
My Fiancee wanted to hear the ‘new’ speakers with  the MC240. And I don’t like moving that bohemith peice of Iron unless my clumsy a$$ has to! Lol
just didn’t want anyone thinking that’s how measurements were take or that I’m listening in that fashion. 
The SH will take their rightful place alone in that system before the sun falls today!
 
still way impressed with this Mod. 
7F1CA20C-3BCC-4F2F-BEB9-61620FC595CD.thumb.jpeg.3f54b1adbcf7b6639ee00542b0808819.jpeg



Thanks so much for all the information. Mine are actually a Hersey I copy. HPS 4000’s made by Klipsch for John Allen who’s main work if in Theaters and concert venues. http://www.hps4000.com/pages/sr_70_.html They came out of a theater that was being torn down. They sale for $750 ea. But I picked up three for total $250. They have the exact tweeter and midrange horn and driver as Hersey I’s but a beefier woofer. I believe it is made by Eminence. A sealed cabinet, MDF not Baltic plywood.


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7 minutes ago, Terry Palmer said:

Mine are actually a Hersey I copy. HPS 4000’s made by Klipsch for John Allen who’s main work if in Theaters and concert venues. http://www.hps4000.com/pages/sr_70_.html They came out of a theater that was being torn down. They sale for $750 ea. But I picked up three for total $250. They have the exact tweeter and midrange horn and driver as Hersey I’s but a beefier woofer. I believe it is made by Eminence. A sealed cabinet, MDF not Baltic plywood.

I believe those were made by retired former Klipsch Chief engineer, Gary Gillum's subsequent company with his son. I have not spoken to Gary for over 10 years. I'm guessing he's doing a lot more fishing these days, if he can.

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I believe those were made by retired former Klipsch Chief engineer, Gary Gillum's subsequent company with his son. I have not spoken to Gary for over 10 years. I'm guessing he's doing a lot more fishing these days, if he can.


Could have been. I’m not sure where John Allen comes in. I actually talked to him on the phone. I was also talking to Bob Creits about them he said he was looking for a pair. He told me that John Allen is where Klipsch gets most of its horns and drivers for the Heritage systems, now.


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