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Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.)


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On 10/4/2018 at 6:07 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Never heard or tested his CT 120's so I can't comment. Knowing Bob, I'm sure they are as good or better than his CT-125's for the right ears and Wallet.

 

Claude-

 

I have a pair of Bob’s CT120s you could borrow and test.  They have Bob’s plastic K77/T35 lookalike lenses.  I’m planning to use them in my HIP that will eventually be “Supered.”

 

Where did the summer go?  Our plans to compare various Supers and audition your “Jubes” never materialized.  Perhaps some fall or winter evening can be mutually convenient.  

 

I’d like to learn more about your experience with @Dave A‘s lenses.  I’ll send you a text.  We’ll talk.

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  • 4 weeks later...
11 hours ago, mopardave said:

When updating super Heresy's to a better tweeter(k77), would any mods need to be done to the x over?  Looking at the B&C DE10, DE110 or the 120.  Thanks

I just got a box of air core inductors from Parts Express to experiment with.

 

Using the small MAHL horn lens and the B&C drivers (and forthcoming Faitals I need to curve), we can cross over to the tweeter drivers at a much lower frequency for even greater detail and smoothness than what has historically been provided by the K55 driver with K700. This also applies to the Super Cornwall's K600 horns I'm working on.

 

The mains improvement that comes from the "dual phase plug" variants of the K55's is in knocking down the nasty 9 Khz. peak that rears it's ugly head in the same band as the tweeter. Someone else designed a "P-trap" to take care of that, but I'd rather roll it off sooner and use the superior super tweeters in the 3-4 Khz. range as a solution.

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2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I just got a box of air core inductors from Parts Express to experiment with.

 

Using the small MAHL horn lens and the B&C drivers (and forthcoming Faitals I need to curve), we can cross over to the tweeter drivers at a much lower frequency for even greater detail and smoothness than what has historically been provided by the K55 driver with K700. This also applies to the Super Cornwall's K600 horns I'm working on.

 

The mains improvement that comes from the "dual phase plug" variants of the K55's is in knocking down the nasty 9 Khz. peak that rears it's ugly head in the same band as the tweeter. Someone else designed a "P-trap" to take care of that, but I'd rather roll it off sooner and use the superior super tweeters in the 3-4 Khz. range as a solution.

If you remember from last feb when you helped me with the super heresy build, when i moved the tap from 3 to 2 on the K55m mid it really smoothed or cleared it up a ton.  Looks like the K77 is currently on 4 tap.    

20180202_175606.jpg

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I picked mine up from @jimjimbo, so I'll quote him:

"Excellent quality crossover components with ClarityCaps in all positions, a new Erse 2.5mH woofer inductor, and configured to the type B crossover configuration that is required for this build."

Looks like no changes made for these particular drivers. So it would be on the first page here. I did not look at the wire placement on the afs when I had them open.

Compared to my Heresy IIs that I mistakenly sold this spring, these things lay out a spacious sound stage that is akin to La Scalas. Playing with them in relation to the corners the bass is much better than my old pair also.

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  • 4 weeks later...

@jimjimbo, @ClaudeJ1

 

I completed my Super Heresy mod months ago and have been pleased with the result. More recently though I have been frustrated with a perceived loss of performance. I decided to recap the X-overs. The problem did not go away.

 

So after removing the cross overs again, I discovered two wiring errors on one network! The mistake did not surprise me as much as the fact that the "Supers" sounded so good before I discovered the error.

 

After completing the repairs yesterday, it is difficult to describe how different the "Supers" sound. They are almost as impressive as my Cornwalls. (just like the listening experience I had at jimjimbo's last year)  When I switched between Super's and Cornwall's the difference, at moderate sound levels, was so slight as to be barely discernible to my un trained ears. 

Then I decided to compare them side by side with my other pair of unmodified Heresy I's. The originals are underwhelming. (in comparison)  

 

I am currently getting a couple of cabinets ready for Claude's Super Cornwall project. The question for Claude is, will the performance change in the 'Super Cornwall' cause me to be underwhelmed with my Cornwall I's?

 

Thanks to both of you for improving my listening experience.

 

Jerry

 

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@jimjimbo

 

It is painful to admit what I did. Can not believe i did not short something out.

 

First, I used the 'E' X-overs and installed original 4uf original caps. I then moved the taps to match a 'B' x-over.(I thought I did)

 

First error was that I did not move the jumper to the B x-over configuration.  So I ended up with an E network with a 4uf cap, taps moved, but still wired as an E network.

 

Maybe I should stick to doing metalwork and leave the electricity to someone that understands what they are doing.

 

Jerry  ☹️

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The best news is that the SH's now are amazing. 

 

Its a bit like the Triumph triple motorcycle I bought in the late '70's. I had owned several Triumphs prior to this acquisition and thought I knew what I was doing.

So after riding it for almost a month I complained to a friend that though the bike was nice enough and fun to ride, I told him that I thought my old bike was faster. I offered to let him ride it and see what he thought.

Well 10 or 15 minutes later he returned. He was grinning ear to ear when he got his helmet off, exclaiming that it was a hell of a ride, especially when you get into 5th gear.

I didn't know it had a 5 speed gearbox!

 

Thanks for your support. In another 10 or 15 years I might figure this electricity thing out.

 

Jerry

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On 12/10/2018 at 10:10 AM, TFR1 said:

I am currently getting a couple of cabinets ready for Claude's Super Cornwall project. The question for Claude is, will the performance change in the 'Super Cornwall' cause me to be underwhelmed with my Cornwall I's?

 

Thanks to both of you for improving my listening experience.

 

Jerry

Glad you got it sorted out. As far as the GOAL of the Super Cornwalls, it's the same as the one I had for the Super Heresy, which is to improve the MIDRANGE, as well as the TWEETER, so that is where I expect the improvements along with "tighter" bass from a stronger motor in the woofer. I plan on crossing the tweeter at 3500-4000 Hz. I already have a Crossover modification on paper, so I should be moving to measurements soon. Also doing a Super Heresy 2.0 at roughly the same time, but we'll have to see which one comes out first. Been busy on other projects lately. I have also been testing a great number or horn and driver combinations. Good Research and Development takes time and I don't expect to get as lucky as I got with the Super Heresy/Baby Cornwall Mod.

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As a bass player and late 70's Heresy owner I have never been unhappy with the speakers, you would think as a bass player I would but I always liked what they brought to each recording. 

I was however intrigued by your mod and followed it closely. Not wanting to change mine I went on a mission to rescue two HBR cabs if I could find them, I did find two a few months apart nowhere close to matching SN's I just made sure to get decent cabs with matching internals. I purchased them at 200 bucks each, the cab's needed some veneer gluing in a few spots, a bit of elbow grease and off to Parts Express for a pair of woofers and ports. I already had a pair of Cornwall B networks from an earlier plan that never materialized so it went pretty smooth based on your efforts in this thread. I left the networks as they were, didn't change the polarity as I am not sure I could tell the difference.. 

 

Needless to say I just put both in my listening space and really appreciate the difference they bring. Always wanted to get some Cornwalls, almost bought a pair of CornScalas but space was just a little too tight so I held off. I have to say I am very pleased and glad I saved the cash I might have spent.

 

Much appreciate your sharing this information.

 

Gary

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On 12/14/2018 at 12:12 PM, CT3795LO said:

As a bass player and late 70's Heresy owner I have never been unhappy with the speakers, you would think as a bass player I would but I always liked what they brought to each recording. 

I was however intrigued by your mod and followed it closely. Not wanting to change mine I went on a mission to rescue two HBR cabs if I could find them, I did find two a few months apart nowhere close to matching SN's I just made sure to get decent cabs with matching internals. I purchased them at 200 bucks each, the cab's needed some veneer gluing in a few spots, a bit of elbow grease and off to Parts Express for a pair of woofers and ports. I already had a pair of Cornwall B networks from an earlier plan that never materialized so it went pretty smooth based on your efforts in this thread. I left the networks as they were, didn't change the polarity as I am not sure I could tell the difference.. 

 

Needless to say I just put both in my listening space and really appreciate the difference they bring. Always wanted to get some Cornwalls, almost bought a pair of CornScalas but space was just a little too tight so I held off. I have to say I am very pleased and glad I saved the cash I might have spent.

 

Much appreciate your sharing this information.

 

Gary

No problem. I just wanted to share the joy of this mod, based on what I learned over the years, when I finally did it, about 5 years ago, to all fellow Klipscheads to see if they could hear what I heard. Mission accomplished. Now you understand why I called them "mini Cornwalls" without any pretense.

 

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Hello Fellow Klipscheads! Been awhile sense I’ve posted. Anyway, wanted to report back after a few months with these Super Heresy’s.

 

I’ve now had ample time to really listen and get to know these SH’s.

 

im still thrilled, anyone debating it...just do it. Spring for the tweeters too. You won’t need another set of speakers ever. Well, unless you have the sickness.lol like me and most others here.

 

what prompted my post, besides feeling it necessary to report back on such an AMAZING MOD, is I recently, with  much help for @ClaudeJ1, is I Built a Tapped Horn “Coffee arable” subwoofer. It’s big, and it’s bada$$! 

 

So my system is a Thorens TD-124/SME3009/A Maverick tube DAC I’ve modded to all getout, into my MX-110z, feeding a couple MC240’s, strapped for each SH(overkill I know). This sounded stellar prior to the TH Subwoofer. 

 

Ive also obtained a few very good sets of speakers, Bozak Symphonies, Altec Valencia’s, And some others. All great speakers. But none with the amazing sound of the SH. With the addition of the TH sub. I’m floored. Maybe This system is done?!! Could it be....I’m actually satisfied??!!! Lol

 

well yeah. I can’t recommend this approach enough. The sound is REAL. The band/singer is in my home, with the MOST effortless sound I’ve heard. The Drums....oh man.

 

I realize there are better systems out there. However, not by much. I’ve heard a lot of gear, by no means all of it. But I go through a lot, and work on a lot. 

 

This is about as as good as it gets. I’m gonna get started on restoring the Valencia’s. However, no hurry now. I couldnt be happier.

 

if you’ve got some Heresies, just try the mod. Yeah it’s a bit of cash, but what you get will rival anything out there with the edition of a competent amplification/subwoofer. Like the Coffee Table sub.

 

I need to do some finish work on the sub, to make my Fiancée happy, but I’m just gonna listen for now.

 

ill post some pics soon. 

 

This community is a great resource, with guys like Claude helping out and donating knowledge. I’m one happy Camper, Merry Xmas to me! Lol

 

also, Merry Christmas to Everyone of you in Klipschland!

 

Treyphan.

 

Also, if anyone has questions, let me know. I hope I can give back just a small percent of the help I received from here, 

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Well, Mr. Treyphan beat me to it. I'm building two of those "Coffee Table Subs" like the original one I had 6 years ago and sold to Gnote, after I got 2 Danley DTS-10's (now gone also).

 

Now that I'm back in a small living room I will be using some different drivers than the original Eminence 12" LAB driver the horn was designed for. This will have even greater output and lower distortion. We shall see in the next month or so. All Klipsch speakers need a sub, Even Khorns and Jubilees, but having one to go with Super Heresy's puts you bass in a different class altogether.

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7 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Well, Mr. Treyphan beat me to it. I'm building two of those "Coffee Table Subs" like the original one I had 6 years ago and sold to Gnote, after I got 2 Danley DTS-10's (now gone also).

 

Now that I'm back in a small living room I will be using some different drivers than the original Eminence 12" LAB driver the horn was designed for. This will have even greater output and lower distortion. We shall see in the next month or so. All Klipsch speakers need a sub, Even Khorns and Jubilees, but having one to go with Super Heresy's puts you bass in a different class altogether.

I forgot to add that I fully simulated the Tapped Horn my driver specifications, even though I have not built it yet. Either way, it's a proven design. So Treyphan's enthusiasm towards it was fully expected since he used a custom/rugged version of the LAB 12 driver, which has limited availability at double the price of the ones from Parts Express.

 

FYI, Matt/Treyphan is crossing his Super Heresy's at 60 Hz. to the Coffee Table Sub.which lowers it's already low distortion further at high volumes.

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I finally got around to taking my Crites @BEC DE-120-8 tweeters to Claude's @ClaudeJ1 to be tested.  I'll leave it to Claude to fill in the technical details and, perhaps, post the curves.  To my inexpert eyes the curves showed the 120 with Bob's plastic K-77-like lens/horn holds its own against the same driver with Dave A's @Dave A sexy aluminum lens and the B&C DE-110 with an aluminum lens.  I wish I had pulled the K-76 tweeter (with Bob's titanium diaphragms) from my DIY Supers to get tested also.

 

Claude's impending trip to deliver his Jubilees to their new home prompted me to go see and hear them before they're gone. Perhaps I can get the k-76 tested next year after Claude returns.

 

Thank you Claude.

 

20181223_192451 (Medium).jpg

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