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Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.)


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13 minutes ago, MookieStl said:

Justin, I was in charge of confusing people on this issue. When you stated the you used the 12LFA in your two way Heresy, I thought that was one of the ones Claude was using in his mod. I was wrong. It did spark a good conversation so my bad had a good result. I have used the 15C with good results so was easily led down this path for the 12" as well.

Thanks for the tips.

This is why I was motivated to run curves for you. Since that woofer is on SALE at Parts Express, and can still use the same PORT as my original Super H mod, I think it's worth a try and you can't lose. Plus it's a way easier Mod since it's just a woofer drop-in/rear panel cutout for the port  with Zero Crossover change from an original Klipsh "E". It's a total no-brainer on a low budget. But please report to us as to how GOOD it will sound as the easiest mod yet available to a Heresy box, and should even win the prize for best bang for buck (sorry, Diz, but his would be a contender to take away your crown).

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Oh, and one more thing you should try with this LFA woofer, Mookie.....................short out the woofer inductor in you E network on one channel and see how it sonically compares to the other channel while playing a mono source and using the R and Left channel balance control to do A/B in real time!!

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EDIT 8/24/18 a 14:26 EDT

 

After the astute observation of @haydukej below, it no longer seems like a good deal. As Gilda’s RRD character used to say on SNL, “Never mind.”

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Eminence-DELTA-PRO-12A-12-Professional-Series-Midbass-Speaker-8-Ohms-Open-Box/123884362162?hash=item1cd81559b2:g:sOUAAOSwv7BdYDXE

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4 hours ago, DizRotus said:

While the box and the listing says "PRO" the speaker label does not. Magnet is 24oz less and different enough Thiele/small parameters that might affect performance as evaluated by @ClaudeJ1

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Good catch @haydukej-

 

The attached photo of one of mine shows that the Claude spec version is clearly labeled “PROFESSIONAL SERIES” and the magnet appears to be larger. 

 

 

woofer_back.thumb.jpg.aafbfb06a12b67da36cd830e18a4e1a6.jpg

 

Also, upon closer inspection, the terminals are different and they appear to have had leads soldered to them in the past. That is inconsistent with the seller’s narrative regarding opening the box.  The photo below is from the eBay listing. I’m just now noticing mine has a cast frame, whereas the eBay’s is stamped.

 

I should know better than posting before I’ve had my coffee.  Thanks @haydukej!

 

663D6B33-07FC-4BE1-937D-2133EDDEDF7D.jpeg

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Buyer beware. Plus it's NOT a Delta PRO 12A, as pointed out by DizRotus. It has totally different T/S parameters also, which I won't bother to model in a Heresy box, since there are now 3 woofers that will work, two of them pretty affordable, and the one less so because of Neo Magnet.

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2 hours ago, DizRotus said:

The attached photo of one of mine shows that the Claude spec version is clearly labeled “PROFESSIONAL SERIES” and the magnet appears to be larger. 

That's because it IS larger and part of the reason why it works so well for a Super Heresy!!

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  • 4 weeks later...

Well the idea of the Super Heresy has appealed to me for some time but it was not until a customer last week revived my interest and coincidently I run across a set of HBR's from 1981 with soldered lug drivers in great shape so I guess I have to do it now. Waiting on parts to get here but doing what I can and that includes putting in a DE10 instead of the DE120 to replace the tweeter. Claude recommended this at the beginning of this thread but I had never though about doing it so I try it today. I will never recommend the DE120 for Heresy's again and it was a bit surprising how nice the DE10 sounded even on the smaller lens and the nice bonus with these is cheaper price.

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On 8/18/2019 at 11:36 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

OK, so here's the curves. What I would recommend is get the Delta 12 LFA on sale, since you will save at least 50-60% over the one I originally recommended.

 

BUT, BUT, BUT, do NOT change the Heresy "E" network Autoformer settings. Keep all the same capacitor values, NEW capacitors (2 uF both), and still add the exact same PORT. This will be a different mod altogether but SHOULD still sound way better than the original K22 woofer.

 

Not only is it cheaper, but it may end up as a more desirable mod because it's WAY EASIER to do....................less soldering.

Pro12Avs12LFA.jpg

OK using your recommendations Claude with this woofer, 700 horn and K-55-V, and a small MAHL with a DE10 on it and your back side port with a recapped type E crossover I have a report. Just running for a half hour or so and woofers and DE10's not broken in yet the bass is thunderous compared to what I am accustomed to with Heresy's. A little heavy on the bass but I have not fiddled with positioning much yet and drivers need to finish breakin. Far closer to a Chorus than a Heresy now.

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1 hour ago, Dave A said:

OK using your recommendations Claude with this woofer, 700 horn and K-55-V, and a small MAHL with a DE10 on it and your back side port with a recapped type E crossover I have a report. Just running for a half hour or so and woofers and DE10's not broken in yet the bass is thunderous compared to what I am accustomed to with Heresy's. A little heavy on the bass but I have not fiddled with positioning much yet and drivers need to finish breakin. Far closer to a Chorus than a Heresy now.

I would try shorting out the woofer inductor to let it run wide open, just so see how it sounds. A jumper wire with 2 alligator clips will do just fine, jumping across the inductor. Let me know how that works. Otherwise, the next step would be to double the midrange capacitor and jump it up to Baby Cornwall level, while leaving the tweeter alone........................one step at a time!!

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Shorting out the woofer inductor will increase the midrange coming from it, therefore changing the "voicing" to make the bass seem less prominent. Since the tweeter is plenty efficient as is, I thought you might like this "working your way up" approach more gradually by pumping up the midrange.

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3 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Shorting out the woofer inductor will increase the midrange coming from it, therefore changing the "voicing" to make the bass seem less prominent. Since the tweeter is plenty efficient as is, I thought you might like this "working your way up" approach more gradually by pumping up the midrange.

OK does the woofer self limit for frequencies that are to high? What are the potential problems from doing this?

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On 9/20/2019 at 7:10 PM, Dave A said:

Well the idea of the Super Heresy has appealed to me for some time but it was not until a customer last week revived my interest and coincidently I run across a set of HBR's from 1981 with soldered lug drivers in great shape so I guess I have to do it now. Waiting on parts to get here but doing what I can and that includes putting in a DE10 instead of the DE120 to replace the tweeter. Claude recommended this at the beginning of this thread but I had never though about doing it so I try it today. I will never recommend the DE120 for Heresy's again and it was a bit surprising how nice the DE10 sounded even on the smaller lens and the nice bonus with these is cheaper price.

 

Hi guys Dave and Claude and others,

 

In pilot B & C do you think to try this new reference which looks much to the new tweeter of the AK6: the DE7.

 

https://www.bcspeakers.com/en/products/hf-driver/0-75/8/de7-8

 

file:///C:/Users/musta/Downloads/DE7_8Ω.pdf

 

There are also some references for example at Celestion which seems happy too:

 

https://celestion.com/product/152/cdx071075/

 

https://celestion.com/product/51/cdx11425/

 

https://celestion.com/product/50/cdx11430/

 

What is your opinion ?

 

😎

 

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Those would fit everywhere the DE120 would so they are of interest and I will check them out. On the DE7 my first thought though is to avoid throats smaller than the 1" size. One thing is for sure I can make them work with my clamp plates and that would add to the drivers known to fit.

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11 hours ago, Dave A said:

OK does the woofer self limit for frequencies that are to high? What are the potential problems from doing this?

Yes, there is some limit to the high frequencies. There is "mass roll off" from the heavier cone of the LFA material, which tends to have 50% more mass than the A type. This is what increases the low end of the response while sacrificing the high end as a trade off. This is a mechanical limitation. Also, there's an extra 0.6 MilliHenries of inductance in the woofer itself (vs. the others I recommened in the original designs), so eventually, you would want to have a smaller inductor than the 2.5 mH one that is in the Heresy "E" network. But shorting it out and doing REW measurements and listening should tell you much more that reading these words. Like the Nike ad says "Just do IT."

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3 hours ago, mustang_flht said:

What is your opinion ?

My opinion is that Dave has the means to make whatever he wants, to adapt to any driver with his horn lenses. Actually, that is a fact.

 

My opinion is it's worth pursuing other drivers if you have the means to do so. I don't present advice unless I have created, tested, and listened to it with all kinds of music before I publish it. It's the only way to maintain integrity for me.

 

Vous comprenez, n'est-ce pas?

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Get all of the bugs worked out, I plan to start mine as soon as I can get around without a walker.

I have all the parts: LFA woofers, K55V, K700, CT120 tweets, recapped E x over, ports, etc. Just need wood.

I had hoped to be first, but looks like Dave is beating me to it. Hopefully he will have some good results and some pointer for me.

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On 9/27/2019 at 8:08 AM, MookieStl said:

Get all of the bugs worked out, I plan to start mine as soon as I can get around without a walker.

I have all the parts: LFA woofers, K55V, K700, CT120 tweets, recapped E x over, ports, etc. Just need wood.

I had hoped to be first, but looks like Dave is beating me to it. Hopefully he will have some good results and some pointer for me.

Dave has beat everyone to most everything Klipsch and beyond, as far as I can tell. LOL. He really put his time and money where his mouth is, so to speak, er...........write.

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