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Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.)


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Quick update, I needed woofers no matter what, took the plunge with the Dayton 310-8 12s.

No network changes, undecided if that is necessary at this point, I am a fan of an eq, the amp I am using has a "boring" bass and treble feature only. This eq only goes to 60 hz and that is the only frequency I boost slightly. Now I want an eq that goes lower as this mod has certainly at the very least got me to 50 hz maybe less (no tools to measure)

 

My internal dampening so far is only thin egg crate style in the "upper chamber" above the woofer and loose insulation carefully placed on the walls in the woofer area, leaving open space by the port.

I left the square speaker terminal and squeezed the port between. After fine tuning with the dremel, I have gone into the plastic part of the rear terminal slightly. There is still a small amount of cabinet wall seperating speaker terminal.

4" diameter, 5" length port.

Floors are wood in medium sized room, in corners.

Only have 1 speaker converted so far for a/b test.

Absolutely Blown Away by the difference. 

For the purists, these things were no prize, mismatched woofers, 4 ohm tweeters from car speakers glued to the horns (replaced with B&C DE-120s, factory squawks), appear to be re painted black, needed to make my own speaker covers and purchased aftermarket badges. 

Will have full report soon with some pictures. Absolutely incredible bass response now. Soooooo happy that I took the chance and a million thank-yous to Claude and friends for experimenting with this. BLOWN AWAY

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10 hours ago, ummagumma-89 said:

I left the square speaker terminal and squeezed the port between. After fine tuning with the dremel, I have gone into the plastic part of the rear terminal slightly. There is still a small amount of cabinet wall seperating speaker terminal.

4" diameter, 5" length port.

 

Why the 5" length ? I went with the 4" as Claude specified when I swapped the Dayton into my Super Heresy back on page 14 of this thread.

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5 hours ago, Wirrunna said:

 

Why the 5" length ? I went with the 4" as Claude specified when I swapped the Dayton into my Super Heresy back on page 14 of this thread.

I was asking some people for help with port size and the company I bought them from said 4"d 5"L. His reasoning was because of the low Fs of .29

I didnt mention I was originally tuning to 39 hz and have absolutely no idea what I am doing. 😄

I know all about page 14, i've been thinking about this particular thread since I bought them. Personally if I had the money, I would want to have tried the deltas. I dont have to boost my lowest eq band nearly as much as before. Dayton 96db sensitivity and Delta 99db. Might have lined up even better. 

I am extremely pleased

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8 hours ago, ummagumma-89 said:

I was asking some people for help with port size and the company I bought them from said 4"d 5"L. His reasoning was because of the low Fs of .29

I didnt mention I was originally tuning to 39 hz and have absolutely no idea what I am doing. 😄

I know all about page 14, i've been thinking about this particular thread since I bought them. Personally if I had the money, I would want to have tried the deltas. I dont have to boost my lowest eq band nearly as much as before. Dayton 96db sensitivity and Delta 99db. Might have lined up even better. 

I am extremely pleased

Your final sentence is the most important. With the Dayton driver, you have a bit more inductance and mass, so the rolloff occurs sooner at the top end. But since you have a 700 Hz. horn cutoff (approx) in a Heresy, you have a situation that favors the bass. For this driver, I would recommend a simple driver swap with the Klipsch network with the port. That way you won't need as much bass boost. Like life style itself, it's question of BALANCE (speaker designers call it "voicing").

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EDIT: Switched to the 4x4 port. Problem solved, cleaned up the sound by a TON getting rid of the extra inch. 

What an amazing mod, now the question is, tilted, flat, slightly up off the floor with some custom stands. Last night I had one on a drum stool just to see and the bass was still there. Any higher than that I lost bass. Going to try Dark side of the moon now. 

 

Finally everyone is out of the house and I can test them.

So something I am noticing with the bass is the deep kick drum sticks out nice, but the bass guitar itself is a bit boomy, and this could be the way I dampened the cab or the port length. (Purposely listening to a modern heavy band Toska just to see)

Shortening the port to 4" like you originally recommended could fix this right. Could be a number of things, like not using eggcrate foam in the woofer area. I have cheap thin wish .com in the "upper area" and insulation in woofer area carefully placed in smaller thinner pieces on the walls and left an area open around the port. 

Its deep, but I find it a little boomy. What do you guys think? Shaving off the extra inch of port? I still have 9 feet of tubing lol. I'll give it a try this week

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Very happy with the results! Heresy II's ported with the Dayton 310-8's, DE-120 tweeters, stock mids and stock network with fresh sonicaps

The insulation idea was an experiment, but am liking the results. I know there will be plenty who will frown on that idea, but its what I had on hand. Cheap egg style foam was used for the upper chamber. 

4x4 port was absolutely the right way to go, positioning is very interesting to figure out to say the least. 

Soooo worth it. I've returned the bass and treble settings on amp and eq to flat. Where you are seated and the positioning of the speakers are critical, although I have had them positioned where no matter where you sit or stand the bass was improved BY FAR. Still tinkering

Had to make my own grills and get badges. They won't win any prizes for looks, but they kick *** and can pair with my Tangent 500's 

Now I plan to move speakers around and couches to see what I get from it

 

Pictures

 

https://ibb.co/R7HNDyK
https://ibb.co/wC6JgBC
https://ibb.co/q1KvKnm
https://ibb.co/CzsFdXN
https://ibb.co/1zB45qF
https://ibb.co/F5XHC1B
https://ibb.co/CnP9503

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Good morning all..

 

  First time poster,  long time reader.. Wanted to introduce myself! I started a journey in the 'audio' realm a year ago when a good friend/audiophile buddy talked me into building a proper headphone amp, and pairing it with a a DAC and a good set of phones.. I built my headphone amp at his rec with the option of being able to use it as a preamp in case I decided to build a power amp at some point.. (this is a slippery slope, as I'm learning). A year later I'm thinking "man, I'd like to get some speakers and build a power amp".. So he and I chat a bit and I'm considering buying a new set of lower end Klipsch speaks. He said "no way would I buy those.. get yourself a pair of Hersey's.. old school.. same price.. no brainer"..  My craigslist search begins..

 

   I found a pair of Hersey I's about an hour from me that were advertised as in good condition.. I went and looked at them and although I didn't know what I was looking at, they looked pretty nice! lol.. Bought them (guy wouldn't negotiate and had a line of folks to buy them) for $650.00. I spent the next few months gathering parts and finished building a Nelson Pass/First Watt/Pass Labs "Aleph J" power amp.

 

  My speaks are unmodified, unmolested with original oil can caps. They sound pretty good to my ears with the AJ, but I have to listen to them in a smaller room and I can def tell that they are lacking a bit on the low end.. clarity is outstanding however.. I think that this mod is just what I need to get the best out of my system, and I'm looking forward to getting it going.

 

  Ordered the Delta Eminance Pro 12A's/port/egg crate yesterday. The caps are backordered so I substituted these instead: https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-PMPC-2.0-2.0uF-250V-Precision-Audio-Capacitor-027-214

 

  Anyone have any experience or thoughts on these?

 

  Anyway, looking forward to getting this project started.. Thank you in advance to all of you guys for the hard work you've done to sort all of this out and take an amazing set of speakers and make them even better!

 

Cheers!

John

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/18/2021 at 9:26 AM, SkyPirate said:

Anyone have any experience or thoughts on these?

 

  Anyway, looking forward to getting this project started.. Thank you in advance to all of you guys for the hard work you've done to sort all of this out and take an amazing set of speakers and make them even better!

 

Cheers!

John

They are tighter tolerance but should sound no different. You may want to try to just do a capacitor upgrade without changing the Autoformer and maintain the original capacitor values. Just do a woofer swap, port, and insulation like Fido did. It's faster, easier, and less work that way. Fido said they sounded as good as Forte 1's that way and his younger wife with better ears agreed. You can always do the mod the rest of the way if you feel you have too much bass. You own the salt shaker and the taste buds and the option to do it incrementally up to the original recipe allows for this progression, which you can stop if you are happy with the easier way. Both are an improvement.

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84af886b251b4cd0a68f4a0f23f627fe.jpg
If someone is looking for a set of H2’s for sale
They are the signature Model
One of our members just passed away. Sancho Panza AKA ( The Captain)
His wife has asked me to sell them as I still have them here in Florida. I picked them up for Captain and was just waiting for the time that I could drive up north and drop them off at his niece house up in North Florida.
I can and will pack these babies up and ship them anywhere in the world for the buyer.
I’m not sure if they are the model 1 or 2. No papers on the rear, they do have the 5 way speaker cup on the backs
Please PM me for more info and price . Mi know I know , I should be listing the price, but I want to get every penny I can for his widow
They look much nicer in person. And I picked them up from the original owner and they had been in the same room from day one

64c1c26cfd8989758d9a4f3a7d0ad480.jpg
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On 4/29/2021 at 8:43 PM, ClaudeJ1 said:

They are tighter tolerance but should sound no different. You may want to try to just do a capacitor upgrade without changing the Autoformer and maintain the original capacitor values. Just do a woofer swap, port, and insulation like Fido did. It's faster, easier, and less work that way. Fido said they sounded as good as Forte 1's that way and his younger wife with better ears agreed. You can always do the mod the rest of the way if you feel you have too much bass. You own the salt shaker and the taste buds and the option to do it incrementally up to the original recipe allows for this progression, which you can stop if you are happy with the easier way. Both are an improvement.

 

Claude,

 

  Thank you for the response.. Finished up the full upgrade a week ago before seeing your post! Followed your specs to a T, although I did use the eminance delta speaker vs sourcing a Klipsch.. (cheapskate I know).. Much improved mids and lows, and very happy with the changes.

 

  Question about your comment above.. Had I upgraded caps to original values, and left autoformer connections in the stock config, would that have, in theory, yielded more low/mid range response? The bass is good, I wouldn't say too much though, and def depends on what I'm playing..

 

Thanks again!

John

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6 hours ago, SkyPirate said:

 

Claude,

 

  Thank you for the response.. Finished up the full upgrade a week ago before seeing your post! Followed your specs to a T, although I did use the eminance delta speaker vs sourcing a Klipsch.. (cheapskate I know).. Much improved mids and lows, and very happy with the changes.

 

  Question about your comment above.. Had I upgraded caps to original values, and left autoformer connections in the stock config, would that have, in theory, yielded more low/mid range response? The bass is good, I wouldn't say too much though, and def depends on what I'm playing..

 

Thanks again!

John

For Fido, I told him to do the mod with the same value cap replacement/refresh and not autoformer changes on the E network. I wanted him to do it incrementally by just cutting a port hole, insulation, then see if he liked it. He thought it sounded as good as his Forte I's so he never changed the crossover with the double cap values and soldering to another Autoformer tap.

 

He then sold it to another Klipsch enthusiast who is using it in a 5,000 square foot room who, told him is sounds great as is. Basically that "incomplete" mod, if you will, just keeps the horns at a 3 db lower setting, which makes the woofer output, effectively a little more prominent while making a little bit less work. A partial mod if you will.

 

This creates a different "voicing" as it is known and certainly has way less of an effect than room volume and placement does. I'm glad you are happy with the FULL mod, since I never heard or measured the partial one and can only rely on those who have tried and liked it.

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6 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

For Fido, I told him to do the mod with the same value cap replacement/refresh and not autoformer changes on the E network. I wanted him to do it incrementally by just cutting a port hole, insulation, then see if he liked it. He thought it sounded as good as his Forte I's so he never changed the crossover with the double cap values and soldering to another Autoformer tap.

 

He then sold it to another Klipsch enthusiast who is using it in a 5,000 square foot room who, told him is sounds great as is. Basically that "incomplete" mod, if you will, just keeps the horns at a 3 db lower setting, which makes the woofer output, effectively a little more prominent while making a little bit less work. A partial mod if you will.

 

This creates a different "voicing" as it is known and certainly has way less of an effect than room volume and placement does. I'm glad you are happy with the FULL mod, since I never heard or measured the partial one and can only rely on those who have tried and liked it.

I bought the capacitors like Claude suggested and I like soldering and projects but once I heard the Supers with just the upgraded Klipsch woofers and Dave As SMAHLs, and did the insulation and installed the ports I loved the sound of that configuration. Sounded almost identical to my Forte 1s with dave As LMAHL tweeter mods. I moved the Forte 1s out and placed the Supers where my Fortes had been and found I could actually have more places the Supers worked in my space so I changed NOTHING more and the Klipsch guy that bought my Supers totally loves them as they are. Doesn't mean my cutting corners is better. When I bought the LMAHL tweeters from Dave A he suggested i install Lpads to help balance out the sensitivity of the Tweeters and so i bought the Lpads, wired them up ready to install and listened and I liked the tweeters running hot so I never installed them. I still have my Forte 1s with Dave As LMAHL tweeters and use them as my surround sound speakers and they sound great to me. Just shows me that sound can be very subjective.

 

It is great having people like Dave A and Claude on this forum sharing all of their experiences of enhancing the old classics. I do not think it is a coincidence that Heresy IVs are now a tad bigger and ported with new XOVER slopes. I bet they would sound even better with Dave As SMAHl tweeters.

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14 minutes ago, Fido said:

It is great having people like Dave A and Claude on this forum sharing all of their experiences of enhancing the old classics. I do not think it is a coincidence that Heresy IVs are now a tad bigger and ported with new XOVER slopes. I bet they would sound even better with Dave As SMAHl tweeters.

Thanks for the kind words and the on point response. I would not bet against DaveA's sMAHLs, thats for sure. I'll be adding a pair of them to the Edgar Titan II's I'm picking up tomorrow night! Meanwhile, I'm doing back, arms, and leg exercises to get ready to pick up those 700 lb. monsters! I'm glad the monster sub breaks down into pieces!!

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On 4/18/2021 at 9:26 AM, SkyPirate said:

I spent the next few months gathering parts and finished building a Nelson Pass/First Watt/Pass Labs "Aleph J" power amp.

The Aleph J was one of the best sounding amps I ever owned, which is several of the Class A varieties. Good move. It will drive the Super Heresy's perfectly, which I'm sure you know already!

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9 minutes ago, Fido said:

When I bought the LMAHL tweeters from Dave A he suggested i install Lpads to help balance out the sensitivity of the Tweeters and so i bought the Lpads, wired them up ready to install and listened and I liked the tweeters running hot so I never installed them. I still have my Forte 1s with Dave As LMAHL tweeters and use them as my surround sound speakers and they sound great to me. Just shows me that sound can be very subjective.

True dat!!! Especially when you consider that most of the Klipscheads that would do these mods are over 50, with too many live Rock Shows under their belt at too high DBs!!

 

I remember taking a DB meter to a Rush concert with my nephew (the Power Windows tour). The meter was parked at 106 dba all night long. I also had ear plugs, thank goodness. I can still hear to 13 Khz...................barely.

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