Super Heresy 1 (Baby Cornwalls Mod.)

[JohnJ]

KappaLite 3012 HOs from partsexpress got here pretty quick.

There is a slight improvement in overall bass that I can hear. Can't give any measurements with what I've got here, you eluded to some good things a couple of pages ago. There are some nice and nicely articulated tones coming from these Supers now.

If it's a result of the sensitivity increase I'm not able to say yet. The placement is the same, the music listened to is not. Waylon Jennings voice gets covered by the woofer some. Some jazz and then a nice 15 minute classical piece. Oboes are a unique woodwind instrument with their funky reed.

 

 

 

[ClaudeJ1]

4 hours ago, JohnJ said:

KappaLite 3012 HOs from partsexpress got here pretty quick.

There is a slight improvement in overall bass that I can hear. Can't give any measurements with what I've got here, you eluded to some good things a couple of pages ago. There are some nice and nicely articulated tones coming from these Supers now.

If it's a result of the sensitivity increase I'm not able to say yet. The placement is the same, the music listened to is not. Waylon Jennings voice gets covered by the woofer some. Some jazz and then a nice 15 minute classical piece. Oboes are a unique woodwind instrument with their funky reed.

 

 

 

 

The improvement is mostly in the greater Xmax of the woofer on the bass end, along with a slight extension of the bass via an extra amount of air space in the cab. Also the midrange end of the response has another 100 Hz. vs the Delta Pro 12a. Otherwise, the efficiency/SPL/etc. should be the same. That said, I'm going by the modeling, and not measurements since I have other projects going at the moment and the SH v2 woofers are still in their shipping carton. You beat me to it.

 

I may end up with a different crossover than the original SH, but it's too soon to tell. Keep listening to material you heard with the older woofers and report you findings here.

[JohnJ]

Read the differences in the Xmax in the specs but did not understand until I googled just now and found:

 

http://www.subwoofer-builder.com/xmax.htm

 

"Xmax is the amount by which the voice coil can move in one direction without it leaving the magnetic zone"

 

The quality of the sound it is making is good, you will like them when you hook them up, haven't been able to crank it yet maybe tomorrow.

Might have a Marantz coming to take the place of my tired old 1990 YAH receiver.

[Play_It_Leo!]

Hey All, 

 

First post for me, as I'm knew to the forum.  First off thanks to @ClaudeJ1 for his work on this project, and the folks who've helped to fine tune this mod and participated in the thread.  This thread is the reason I picked up a very nice set of 1.5's in oak from the original owner last week.  I've been very pleased with the speakers so far and am using a Denon PMV 700A amp for the time being.  I'm planning to do the upgrade as per  the list @Treyphan put up a few pages back, and am excited to get started.  Couple questions:

 

1. Should I drill the original backs or build a new one? I know Treyphan said he built a new back and then later said he would never sell the speakers, so it wouldn't have mattered if he had cut them. I"m on the fence on this one.   To drill or not to drill? 

 

2. I've seen some other people line the backs of the horn lenses & woofers with Dynamax to dampen them. Anyone care to comment if this is worth doing?  Seems like it wouldn't hurt, but don't want to go thru the effort if won't make much difference.

 

I'm a little fuzzy on the mid & horn pos/neg hook ups so I'll have to go back and read through the thread again.  I'll report back next week when I get them all done. 

 

Thanks again for the help, 

 

Cheers!

-Jeff

 

Edited October 4, 2018 by Play_It_Leo!

[ClaudeJ1]

6 hours ago, Play_It_Leo! said:

Hey All, 

 

First post for me, as I'm knew to the forum.  First off thanks to @ClaudeJ1 for his work on this project, and the folks who've helped to fine tune this mod and participated in the thread.  This thread is the reason I picked up a very nice set of 1.5's in oak from the original owner last week.  I've been very pleased with the speakers so far and am using a Denon PMV 700A amp for the time being.  I'm planning to do the upgrade as per  the list @Treyphan put up a few pages back, and am excited to get started.  Couple questions:

 

1. Should I drill the original backs or build a new one? I know Treyphan said he built a new back and then later said he would never sell the speakers, so it wouldn't have mattered if he had cut them. I"m on the fence on this one.   To drill or not to drill? 

 

2. I've seen some other people line the backs of the horn lenses & woofers with Dynamax to dampen them. Anyone care to comment if this is worth doing?  Seems like it wouldn't hurt, but don't want to go thru the effort if won't make much difference.

 

I'm a little fuzzy on the mid & horn pos/neg hook ups so I'll have to go back and read through the thread again.  I'll report back next week when I get them all done. 

 

Thanks again for the help, 

 

Cheers!

-Jeff

 

You can get the foam liner from parts express. Never tested the Dynamat, but since Treyphan lives only 30 minutes away, I did all the curves that let us optimize the recipe for a 1.5 Heresy. I can't predict changes made that I didn't measure. About a week later, I went to his house and heard them for myself in HIS room. They sound pretty darn amazing with his amps.

 

I highly recommend the MAHL horn lenses with the B&C DE-120 and DE-110 (my fave) tweeter drivers, which were the "whipped cream with cherry on top."

[Play_It_Leo!]

17 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

 

I highly recommend the MAHL horn lenses with the B&C DE-120 tweeter drivers, which were the "whipped cream with cherry on top."

Are these the lenses from DaveA? I just ordered them, so I hope so!

[ClaudeJ1]

On 8/17/2018 at 12:31 PM, JohnJ said:

@Dave A

Yes I agree with you on that.

That site states the the DE110 will soon replace the DE120.

With everything I have read on the www nothing stated that the 110 is equivalent, better or worse! Just superlative statements about the 120.

Thinking that model might be in consideration with the SH v2 testing.

I have been testing the DE-110 vs. the DE-120, which, the B&C representative tells me they will keep selling it as long as people buy it. I prefer the DE-110 for it's smaller size and almost identical performance (slightly different curve, but still within a few db.) on DaveA's MAHL small Ellipse Horns. But you can't go wrong with either one.

[ClaudeJ1]

1 minute ago, Play_It_Leo! said:

Are these the lenses from DaveA? I just ordered them, so I hope so!

Yes. You will be amazed.

[Play_It_Leo!]

Great! thanks for your efforts Claude!  

[ClaudeJ1]

First set of curves is for typical toe-in of speakers measured at a 30 degree angle (realistic). RED is the large MAHL, Green is the smaller MAHL. The second set of curves is dead center of the tweeters. These were done with 1/12th octave smoothing. Just remember that these are used above 6 Khz. typically, only the right part of the graph need apply.

 

[Wirrunna]

3 hours ago, Play_It_Leo! said:

1. Should I drill the original backs or build a new one? I know Treyphan said he built a new back and then later said he would never sell the speakers, so it wouldn't have mattered if he had cut them. I"m on the fence on this one.   To drill or not to drill? 

 

Get 3/4" ply new backs and a pair of connector cups to allow banana plugs.

That way you can cut the 4" holes for the port and the holes for the cups while still listening to your speakers. The original backs are a bit light and you can feel them vibrate when the speakers are playing.

You can't see the new backs so the fact that they stick out a little ( 1/8" of an inch) doesn't matter.

[ClaudeJ1]

1 hour ago, Wirrunna said:

Get 3/4" ply new backs and a pair of connector cups to allow banana plugs.

That way you can cut the 4" holes for the port and the holes for the cups while still listening to your speakers. The original backs are a bit light and you can feel them vibrate when the speakers are playing.

You can't see the new backs so the fact that they stick out a little ( 1/8" of an inch) doesn't matter.

Good advice for those who lean towards practical paranoia and caution. However you should know that the Klipsch Original rear panel doesn't vibrate much after it's ported since most of the otherwise trapped air escapes though the port (sealed vs. ported boxes in general). I just cut my originals thinking I would never go back to stock, which no one ever does that I know of.

[jimjimbo]

Claude, I apologize if I have missed it, but how do these MAHL lenses measure compared to the HF Elliptrac lenses from ALK with the same drivers?

@ClaudeJ1

 

And, I guess while I'm asking questions, how do they compare against the Crites CT-120 and CT-125?

 

Again, my apologies, but I just don't have time to read all of the thread content.....

[ClaudeJ1]

1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

Claude, I apologize if I have missed it, but how do these MAHL lenses measure compared to the HF Elliptrac lenses from ALK with the same drivers?

@ClaudeJ1

 

And, I guess while I'm asking questions, how do they compare against the Crites CT-120 and CT-125?

 

Again, my apologies, but I just don't have time to read all of the thread content.....

Smoother and better dispersion overall. DaveA originally had Conical Ellipses, like the Elliptracs (I still have one to measure against), but I told him he should stop offering them and just do the Convex Ellipticals (which have a Quasi Tractrix flare, now known as Big MHAL and Little MAHL since they have better/smoother dispersion at 30 and 45 degree angles.

 

I ended up using the Crites 125's on one pair of my Super Heresy's which are now in Cleveland in the HT of a very happy friend. Those are very good also. Never heard or tested his CT 120's so I can't comment. Knowing Bob, I'm sure they are as good or better than his CT-125's for the right ears and Wallet.

 

Not to say the others are bad, but I wanted to go with the best solid Aluminum lens possible and DaveA nailed it. I have curves on all of them to prove it, with a whole bunch of different drivers (B&C still rules). I'll be doing some serious listening when I'm done with the Super Heresy 2.0's and the Super Cornwall, for which, I will test various MAHL lenses to mate with the new Mids I selected. Mounting them on a front panel may yield different curves and will require full synergy with new Xovers. It may not end up being as easy as the Super Heresy 1.0 but will be worth the tweaks for those who want to go a bit further.

 

That being said, ALL of the above offer an improvement over old K77's which may not have withstood the test of time and are in need of upgrade or diaphragms. Basically, starting with new diaphragms from Bob Crites (least expensive) the more you spend, the more improvement you get. Also all of the above measure and sound just a little bit different, so it all depends on how much salt you like in your soup for your taste buds (and Ears, obviously).........metal or plastic, anyone??

[jimjimbo]

Thank you for that!

[ClaudeJ1]

14 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

Thank you for that!

You're welcome. Like Steve Jobs used to say: ...........just one more thing.................Some of my curves show a slight rise above 15Kz. (B&C DE120/110 drivers do that except the DE-10, which is the smoothest of all). So far I have found that rolling it off with small air core choke to be unnecessary since most the the guy here are older and can't hear much above 12 Khz.. Now if there are dogs or young daughters in the house, it could be a problem, since they can hear up there, but should be infrequent and temporary in either case.

[Play_It_Leo!]

So all the parts arrived and I’ve spent the morning soldering and installing.  Unfortunately the port will have to wait until tomorrow as the center drill bit of the circular bit is too big for my drill.  But I have the new caps in, the woofers and tweeters, as well as The MAHL’s installed,  and the box filled with foam.  A marked improvement so far and I’m expecting more punchy bass when the ports are installed.

 

I do have a question in regards to the crossovers, and please forgive my ignorance.  The capacitors are not directional are they?  I couldn’t tell if they were or not so I just soldered them in.

 

And in regards to the polarity of the squawkers and tweeters, I connected them to the xover the same as they came from Klipsch:  red to red & black to black.  Is this correct?

 

Thanks again,

 

-Jeff

Edited October 8, 2018 by Play_It_Leo!

[Wirrunna]

1 hour ago, Play_It_Leo! said:

The capacitors are not directional are they?  I couldn’t tell if they were or not so I just soldered them in.

 

And in regards to the polarity of the squawkers and tweeters, I connected them to the xover the same as they came from Klipsch:  red to red & black to black.  Is this correct?

 You are correct in both instances.

[ClaudeJ1]

1 hour ago, Play_It_Leo! said:

So all the parts arrived and I’ve spent the morning soldering and installing.  Unfortunately the port will have to wait until tomorrow as the center drill bit of the circular bit is too big for my drill.  But I have the new caps in, the woofers and tweeters, as well as The MAHL’s installed,  and the box filled with foam.  A marked improvement so far and I’m expecting more punchy bass when the ports are installed.

 

I do have a question in regards to the crossovers, and please forgive my ignorance.  The capacitors are not directional are they?  I couldn’t tell if they were or not so I just soldered them in.

 

And in regards to the polarity of the squawkers and tweeters, I connected them to the xover the same as they came from Klipsch:  red to red & black to black.  Is this correct?

 

Thanks again,

 

-Jeff

Yes. Correct. Good job.

[Play_It_Leo!]

I finished up the Speakers this afternoon and am very pleased with the sound.  Thanks again to all!