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Anyone heard of HiFi Heaven in Green Bay, Wisc?


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The reason I ask, is that these guys don't seem like 'Nice Guys' to me. Or am I wrong?

I am looking at a new recently released DAC and would like to buy one, with a return policy in case it falls flat in my system. So I see this e-bay add that claims 'Money Refunded' if returned in 14 days. I get ready to 'pull the trigger' and buy one, and then I read the 'fine print' in the return policy and see a mention of a possible 20% re-stocking fee.

So, I send the seller an e-mail asking if this is true. I get a response saying 'Only if I 'Open the Unit' would the fee be 20%. Now I wonder if the seller means 'Open the shipping box' or actually 'Open the Unit' by removing the Chassis Cover. So, I ask for clarification and basically get told that if you open the shipping box it will cost a 20% re-stock fee.

But, But, But..... If you don't open the Box and Pay for return shipping, the re-stock fee is only 15% !!!

I am going to look for another seller........ Are these guys really the A** Holes that I think they are?

Here is the Ad.... http://www.ebay.com/itm/TEAC-UD-301-Black-USB-32bit-192kHz-DSD-asynchronous-DAC-balanced-outs-UD301-/121352588998?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item1c412d8ec6

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Just to be safe, set up a roadblock at the entrance to your subdivision on the day UPS or FedEx arrives!! Seriously, I looked at their website in the past and they didn't look like an authorized dealer for many brands. That's a warranty issue.

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I looked at their website in the past and they didn't look like an authorized dealer for many brands. That's a warranty issue.

True in many instances retailers may not be an authorized seller. It is always good to check from both retailer and manufacturer perspective. In this instance I just checked the Teac website for "dealers located in Wisconsin" and the company is currently listed by Teac, the manufacturer of the item in question by the OP.

http://www.teac.com/where_to_buy/

The "restocking fee debates" are not new and you can find many threads on the internet with whining (and some good information too) on both sides of the issue.

While many of the brick & mortar chain retailers may not have a restocking fee on "non-defective" merchandise (I believe that Best Buy got rid of their fee in 2010), many of the smaller electronics shops use the fee to avoid becoming a 'library service.'

I've heard people brag over and over again how they bought something (i.e. clothes, camera, etc.) on a Friday or Saturday, used the item for a specific event, then returned the item Sunday or Monday for a full refund. Restocking fees for 'larger ticket' items may curb the practice somewhat and rein in prices for the rest of us.

The other aspect with electronics, is that once an item has been opened, the company can no longer sell it as new. Many times the restocking fee covers the discount needed to move the now "used" item. I remember as kids, my brother and I used to check the local electronics store daily for "open box" items that were "marked down" because of a return. Many years ago I bought my first CD player that was significantly marked down as open box due to a "non-defective" merchandise return.

Here is an article (somewhat older as it is from 2006) regarding the impact of return fraud.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/12/09/AR2006120900018.html

Just as the OP did, it is always good to check the store policies on return before making a decision. Some believe that strong return policies help keep the cost down; however, if a company tries to charge a restocking fee on "defecive" merchandise, it may be worth checking if they are in violation of state or federal law.

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I don't have a problem with a firm charging a 20% re-stocking fee, as long as they don't try to hide it with 'Fine Print'. Saying you have a return policy with 'Money Back' is not the same as saying you have a return policy with 80% of your money back. I am not the only one, as I have read their feedback. Here is their snarky reply to one of their customers. It may be clearly stated, but it is imbedded in a chunk of very fine print. The only thing that they are 'clearly' doing is trying to hide their re-stock fee.

Return policy deceptive. I have to pay 40 bucks to return these ear buds. Buyer:
s***s ( 65iconBlueStar_25x25.gif)
Nov-14-13 16:08 iconFdbkCnvrsB_20x20.gif
  • Reply by hifiheaven-net (Nov-15-13 08:51):
    Deceptive?? Its clearly stated under returns on all listings.
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Did you buy yours at HiFi Heaven in Green Bay Wisc?

No, did not buy American, not when exact copies are being made for the millions audiophiles in china, their stuff is good, ya just need to take the plunge.

I fought it for two years, why buy a Mac for 3K and zero support? Primeamp, I complained about a dim tube in the wifes amp and he sent a complete set of KT88s no charge,

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No, did not buy American, not when exact copies are being made for the millions audiophiles in china, their stuff is good, ya just need to take the plunge.

It's a no go for me as the Volume is only for headphones. I want to use with no pre-amp

Edited by Cut-Throat
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I don't have a problem with a firm charging a 20% re-stocking fee, as long as they don't try to hide it with 'Fine Print'. Saying you have a return policy with 'Money Back' is not the same as saying you have a return policy with 80% of your money back. I am not the only one, as I have read their feedback. Here is their snarky reply to one of their customers. It may be clearly stated, but it is imbedded in a chunk of very fine print. The only thing that they are 'clearly' doing is trying to hide their re-stock fee.

Return policy deceptive. I have to pay 40 bucks to return these ear buds. Buyer:
s***s ( 65iconBlueStar_25x25.gif)
Nov-14-13 16:08 iconFdbkCnvrsB_20x20.gif
  • Reply by hifiheaven-net (Nov-15-13 08:51):
    Deceptive?? Its clearly stated under returns on all listings.

Given the multitude of dealers listed on the Teac site that I found in the link above, I believe that you should be able to find adequate alternatives for the purchase.

The thread piqued my interest though. I have no affiliation with the company and have never bought anything from them. From my research I found that the company has been in business since 1978.

Regarding the use of the word "deceptive" in the negative feedback by the feedback provider. The word "deceptive" has the negative connotation of fraud as Section 5 of the Federal Trade Commission Act (FTC Act) (15 USC 45) prohibits "unfair or deceptive acts or practices in or affecting commerce."

http://www.ftc.gov/about-ftc/what-we-do/enforcement-authority

When used in the context of business practices, there seems to be a strong connotation of wrong-doing or fraudulent activity; however, I suspect that the negative feedback provider with only 65 feedbacks of his own (that I don't consider very experienced for eBay) may not realize the implications of the using the terminology and the business may not either. I'm sure that there are state statutes that can be enforced too if something is really deceptive or fraudulent.

Here is a bbb complaint, a response & the bbb response for a similar re-stocking fee issue.

http://www.bbb.org/wisconsin/business-reviews/radio-communication-equipment-and-systems/hi-fi-heaven-in-green-bay-wi-14000819/

BBB's Final Determination: After reviewing the position of all parties, BBB determined that the business made a reasonable effort to address the complaint. However the consumer remains dissatisfied.

An interesting article titled: "Terms and conditions: not reading the small print can mean big problems"

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2011/may/11/terms-conditions-small-print-big-problems

"Survey shows just 7% of people read the full terms when buying a product or service online, while a fifth say they have suffered from not doing so" I have read other surveys that state the percentage is as high as 10% (still way too low in my opinion).

"Nearly six in 10 (58%) adults said they would rather read an instruction manual or their utility or credit card bill than go through online terms, and more than one in 10 (12%) would rather read the phone book. Meanwhile, 43% of those who don't always read the terms and conditions say they are boring or difficult to understand."

I suspect that I find it interesting as I'm the one in my "extended family" charged with "reading all of the fine print" for most of them and having seen similar policies regularly, I didn't think it was unclear.

I wasn't entirely sure what you were looking for as a response; however, I was actually hoping to give a broader-based perspective on re-stocking fees and the need to read the fine print rather than crack a joke (noticing that all of the good jokes were taken). I guess it was a public service announcement gone bad; therefore, you convinced me to do a little more research.

In studying the policy further (I couldn't get the jpg to be of best quality without being too large in MB to post) I noticed that the same font and size is used throughout (i.e. the text "money back" and the text under "return policy details").

Overall, if it was me, I would look at the return policy and probably would not buy unless I was nearly 100% certain it was the gear I wanted. However, given that the return policy is comprehensive and located in the exact place that eBay has designated, I personally would not necessarily call it deceptive or fraudulent under the eBay standards.

Hope this helps clarify.

post-36163-0-34660000-1401932353_thumb.j

Edited by Fjd
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Fjd...... This is not a Legal issue. It's just 'good faith' dealing.

This vendor does not deal in good faith and therefore would not get my business.

I never planned on consulting an attorney, and I'm sure none of the people that hid their re-stock fees did either.

Edited by Cut-Throat
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Mr. Cut Throat, I do see your point, that the return policy is in the fine print, and thereby "deceptive." I don't think that makes them "a-holes," but that's just my opinion.

I think the more important part of this thread is that you did your due diligence and read the fine print. You educated yourself to the parts of the policy you were interested in, and you made your purchasing decision. In my book that puts you in the top ten percent of educated consumers.

That deserves a thumbs up, and is a good heads-up for the rest of us. :emotion-21:

Edited by wvu80
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