alexg5775 Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I currently have a fisher 500C (which is on its way back from getting restored) running a pair of khorns with a sub. 2.1 channel. I use my computer (2008 macbook) for 80% of listening, whether it be pandora, soundcloud, itunes, mp3's, youtube, etc. It was not until VERY recently i heard about these DAC's or soundcards. I currently use the mini head phone jack cable which converts to RCA cable (bought on amazon) and i plug that into the back of the fisher. I have been doing some research and cant find my exact answer. What exactly do i need? What would you guys recommend for me? This would be used for the sole purpose as described above, from my computer to fisher. No signal going back to my computer, i do not use phono, and i do not use headphone, no tape player, no cd. My budget i would say is a couple hundred bucks. I saw some cheap ones and some very expensive ones so i am not sure what $ i am even looking at. I do want it to sound good, i dont know if there would be a particular piece i should be looking for running the fisher and tube equipment and all. Thanks for any and all help, Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 This comes up often, I suggest an outboard DAC as most computers off the shelf have substandard dacs...................an outboard dac is an easy way to convert your files to analog to play through the fisher there are several options available I use the Schiit Bifrost with the uber analog upgrade, I also have an Audio GD 11.32 which uses the saber Ess9018 dac chip which is very detailed and sounds very good with tube amps There are also some cheaper options like the dragonfly 1.2 by audiovox (I Think) supposed to be very good, there is also the peach tree Idac, and i believe emotiva has a dac around 200.00, schiit has a modi dac for 99.00 that is pretty good You will see several used dacs on audiogon, I am selling my audio gd with the saber it has a headphone amp built in but is set up to use as a dac alone also if you were closer I would loan it so you could get an idea of what an outboard dac can do for you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 You need a DAC and a USB (A/B usually) cable to connect your computer to the DAC. I really liked my HRT streamer II+ for this kind of use with the Fisher 500C. The Halide DAC is a little beyond the budget you mentioned but is really great for the money. I think for streaming Pandora and playing MP3 files I would look at the HRT options. A tube DAC would be nice with the Fisher but that starts getting more expensive. Look at the Grant Fidelity if you have more input needs. I loved my MHDT Havana but you might want to start out with something less expensive. I keep hearing about the Dragonfly but haven't heard it myself. It sure is a nice price. Good luck and enjoy that system! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Alex, Joessportster offered you some good suggestions and I will add to that. You can't go wrong with either of this: http://www.spearitsound.com/DACS_and_Transports-Cambridge_Audio_DacMagic_100.html And as mentioned this: http://www.audioadvisor.com/searchprods.asp The version 1.0 goes for $99.00 and version 1.2 for $148.75. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexg5775 Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Thanks guys for all the help and suggestions. I have done some more research and i think i am going to go with a outboard DAC. That cambridge you suggested BIll looks very nice and has good reveiws. Can be had at 300 new which i think it right about my upper end budget limit. I checked my local craigslist and someone was selling a emotiva XDA-1 for pretty cheap but i did not like the reveiws so out of questions for me. What is most important to me is the sound. I know SQ is very subjective and everyone is going to have a different opinion on what sounds better to them but i will do my research and pick something to the best of my ability. So at a 300$ limit, i am definatly willing to go used, any other suggestions? Thank you, Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexg5775 Posted June 8, 2014 Author Share Posted June 8, 2014 Some one locally is selling a california audio labs sigma 2 DAC. A tube DAC. Any thoughs on this DAC? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 you mention SQ is your priority, so the easiest thing to do is look at the various CHIP reviews (not the manufacturers using the chips, the chips them selves) IE if detail is your preference look at chips reviewed as having detail Example saber If musicality is your preference look at wolfson / burr brown etc.... Then figure out what design features you want IE bit / resolution supported, input and output capabilities I found knowing my own musical preferences typically allow me to pick a product I can live with, as far as tube DAC's go check its bit / resolution abilities, then look at reviews from USERS and see if you find any complaints about noise etc... Tube designs are a bit more likely to introduce noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 The cal. audio labs sigma is generally not well recieved, of the several people I know that have used them ALL preferred the earlier alpha design, also for around 300.00 I am nearly positive you can get a better dac as they have had large gains in tech over the past few years If memory serves me correct that sigma is close to 10 years old Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I was correct the dac came out in 2005, just checked a review page it recieved a 50 / 50 rating out of 15 reviews http://www.audioreview.com/cat/digital-sources/dacs/california-audio-labs/sigma-ii/prd_124341_2738crx.aspx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 Yes get a MusicStreamer II or Dragonfly! I would break into the Dac world gently...IMLO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 8, 2014 Share Posted June 8, 2014 I checked my local craigslist and someone was selling a emotiva XDA-1 for pretty cheap but i did not like the reveiws so out of questions for me. I don't know about Emotiva's implementation of the Analog Devices AD1955 chip, but my Cambridge Audio 840C CD player/DAC sure sounds wonderful with the same chip. I really have not heard anything bad about the Emo. I see the CL Emo XDA-1 is $220.00. I would definitely forgo it for the newer XDA-2 from Shop Emotiva for $269.00. I am assuming the reviews are better for the XDA-2. http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xda2 On the other hand, the XDA-1/XDA-2 are full size DACs(17 inches wide) and it looks like you may be needing something a little more inconspicuous since it is for computer use. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 Get one of these and enjoy. It's the same basic unit as the Grant Fidelity at half the price. I've been using it with the upgraded tube option for a couple years..it sounds darn good for the bucks spent. I'll be upgrading to a schiit Bifrost soon on Joe recommendation which I trust but I do not expect earth shattering improvements. EBay item #121267937176 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 you mention SQ is your priority, so the easiest thing to do is look at the various CHIP reviews (not the manufacturers using the chips, the chips them selves) IE if detail is your preference look at chips reviewed as having detail Example saber If musicality is your preference look at wolfson / burr brown etc.... Then figure out what design features you want IE bit / resolution supported, input and output capabilities I found knowing my own musical preferences typically allow me to pick a product I can live with, as far as tube DAC's go check its bit / resolution abilities, then look at reviews from USERS and see if you find any complaints about noise etc... Tube designs are a bit more likely to introduce noise. This is very good advice the chip is the heart of a dac just like the tubes and transformer are the heart of a tube amp. I'll add to his advice that you really should not place too much importance on a tube dac with a Fisher 500 you already have all the tube goodness you need. The suggestion I gave gives you dual outputs one conventional oppamp and one tube......best of both worlds. However it uses a cirus brand chip not the absolute best but no slouch for sure...Great bang for the buck factor!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 (edited) I currently have a fisher 500C (which is on its way back from getting restored) running a pair of khorns with a sub. 2.1 channel. I use my computer (2008 macbook) for 80% of listening, whether it be pandora, soundcloud, itunes, mp3's, youtube, etc. It was not until VERY recently i heard about these DAC's or soundcards. I currently use the mini head phone jack cable which converts to RCA cable (bought on amazon) and i plug that into the back of the fisher. I have been doing some research and cant find my exact answer. What exactly do i need? What would you guys recommend for me? This would be used for the sole purpose as described above, from my computer to fisher. No signal going back to my computer, i do not use phono, and i do not use headphone, no tape player, no cd. My budget i would say is a couple hundred bucks. I saw some cheap ones and some very expensive ones so i am not sure what $ i am even looking at. I do want it to sound good, i dont know if there would be a particular piece i should be looking for running the fisher and tube equipment and all. Thanks for any and all help, Alex I'll tell you what, iv still got the first unit I bought at fry's for $30 bucks, good cheap starter unit, plugs into the USB and comes out 1/8 headphone jack just like your using now. you PM me and we will work out a killer deal to get this critter in your hands. This unit is = SIIG USB Soundwave 7.1 Pro, look it up, and let me know. Edited June 11, 2014 by minermark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I checked my local craigslist and someone was selling a emotiva XDA-1 for pretty cheap but i did not like the reveiws so out of questions for me. I don't know about Emotiva's implementation of the Analog Devices AD1955 chip, but my Cambridge Audio 840C CD player/DAC sure sounds wonderful with the same chip. I really have not heard anything bad about the Emo. I see the CL Emo XDA-1 is $220.00. I would definitely forgo it for the newer XDA-2 from Shop Emotiva for $269.00. I am assuming the reviews are better for the XDA-2. http://shop.emotiva.com/products/xda2 On the other hand, the XDA-1/XDA-2 are full size DACs(17 inches wide) and it looks like you may be needing something a little more inconspicuous since it is for computer use. Bill Man that emotiva XDA2 would be perfect if they just had a couple analog inputs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 11, 2014 Share Posted June 11, 2014 I currently have a fisher 500C (which is on its way back from getting restored) running a pair of khorns with a sub. 2.1 channel. I use my computer (2008 macbook) for 80% of listening, whether it be pandora, soundcloud, itunes, mp3's, youtube, etc. It was not until VERY recently i heard about these DAC's or soundcards. I currently use the mini head phone jack cable which converts to RCA cable (bought on amazon) and i plug that into the back of the fisher. I have been doing some research and cant find my exact answer. What exactly do i need? What would you guys recommend for me? This would be used for the sole purpose as described above, from my computer to fisher. No signal going back to my computer, i do not use phono, and i do not use headphone, no tape player, no cd. My budget i would say is a couple hundred bucks. I saw some cheap ones and some very expensive ones so i am not sure what $ i am even looking at. I do want it to sound good, i dont know if there would be a particular piece i should be looking for running the fisher and tube equipment and all. Thanks for any and all help, Alex I'll tell you what, iv still got the first unit I bought at fry's for $30 bucks, plugs into the USB and comes out 1/8 headphone jack just like your using now. you PM me and we will work out a killer deal to get this critter in your hands. This unit is = SIIG USB Soundwave 7.1 Pro, look it up, and let me know. Do take a look at the reviews for this and be sure to have an idea of what you want your dac to do.............................I read a couple reviews and they speak of VIRTUAL sound placement etc...etc... uneven sound reproduction, louder passages, can hear some sounds when volume at zero I want my dac to honestly reproduce my music, not futz with it to produce a virtual representation of what the dac manufacturer thinks i should hear Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexg5775 Posted June 12, 2014 Author Share Posted June 12, 2014 Thanks so much for all of your help and input. Minemark thanks for the offer but i will pass. So as of right now i am tossed between the Bushmaster mkII tc-7533 and the Maverick audio tubemagic d2. They both have good reviews and it is hard making a decision when i have never heard either unit.... I do NOT need a head phone amp so in the bushmaster this is useless. And as Craig and Bill said i am not sure if pairing a tube DAC is a good idea with the already tubed 500c BUT the Maverick tubemaster does have tube and reg analog output so i can try them both out and see what i like best. I know i say i am after the best sq i guess i wish i knew which unit would sound best, i guess impossible to know without actually hearing both on my system. Craig i did a little research and the DAC-01A you suggested seems to have mediocre reviews. Please correct me if i am wrong? My budget is ~300 and really dont care to spend a extra 100bux and get better sound. Thanks again for all the help and suggestions guys. Alex Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 I dare say you are reading A LOT into this decision, it is almost universal in thought that if you buy a dac under 500 the differences will not be all that substantial between the choices in SQ ESPECIALLY with your files all being 256 Kbits as we discussed on the phone what you want to do is ask yourself what you are looking for in sound quality as already mentioned Its probably not the best idea as craig already stated to add a tube dac to a tube receiver....................there are several very well received dacs in your price range and the sound differences will not be jaw dropping between them. As you already have a tubed rec. which will add a bit of warmth to the presentation I would say for balance You should look at a DAC known to have higher detail EXAMPLE any dac in your price range using the saber 9018 chip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Alex, I say just get the Dragonfly(I am) with the Sabre chip and you are "only" out $100.00 or $149.00. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 12, 2014 Share Posted June 12, 2014 Alex, I say just get the Dragonfly(I am) with the Sabre chip and you are "only" out $100.00 or $149.00. Bill I would tend to agree, It really is a waste to go out and get a great expensive dac to use with par at best source................A dac will only put out what you feed it, The dac cannot improve the source, a better dac will only play the source extracting all the detail that is there an example of your sources SQ loss would be, song A ripped lossless takes up 45mb of space, the same song at your 256 kbits takes up 7 or 8 mb of space...............It should be evident that you have lost 30+ mb of detail that the compression process deemed unnecessary in the interest of saving space on your drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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