J.L. Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) Hello fellow Klipsch Forum members... I haven't been on here in a long time. Still very much enjoying my KG 5.5's I was wondering if anyone knows of a YouTube video (or other video) of a comparison between a solid state amp and a tube amp?? I found a few on YouTube, but not the best audio. I would just like to hear the audio difference between the two and this would be such a convenient way to do so as I live so far from any audio shop that could possibly do this for me. Thanks for any help.... hope all are doing well!!!!!!!!!! Edited June 24, 2014 by J.L. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) you're not going to be able to "LISTEN" to a comparison over the internet... you may however be able to watch someone talk about a comparison. Edited June 24, 2014 by Schu 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minermark Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 No, wait a sec, they are your ears, where ever you live their may be a member of this forum that im sure would be willing to help you out. Start by telling us where you live ? city? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 No, wait a sec, they are your ears, where ever you live their may be a member of this forum that im sure would be willing to help you out. Start by telling us where you live ? city? Good idea, I'm sure someone on here could help out, extremely helpful folks around here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 funny i was gonna make a thread about this tonight or tomorrow. i just got a tube amp. i will try and post some stuff once i figure out exactly what it is i am hearing. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Does anyone remember the "loudness" button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Yep my pioneer sx-980 has it. Well it's a switch it same thing. I like it for low level listening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.L. Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Thanks for the replies.... I know it would be difficult over the internet to hear the difference between the two, but the way most talk on this forum, it's quite a difference to hear. So that's why I thought it might be worth a try. Would love to hear the difference between tube and solid state in person!!!! I'm in north central PA area. And thanks Scrappydue, that would be great if you can come up with something!!! I had an old Yamaha stereo receiver (50 watts I think) that had a loudness button. You depressed it for a little boost in bass. I had it switched on all the time. That was a great sounding unit, but I thought I needed more power, so I got another Yamaha that is 85 watts now. From what I've learned on here, you really need to increase the power to notice the difference, so I was just spinning my wheels doing this.... hehehe... oh well.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckAb3 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 An audio shop is the best resource, unfortunately. Otherwise we have to rely on the subjective opinions of others. Perhaps if you could pinpoint a brick and mortar store that carries both tube and ss brands you are interested in, you could make the trek. A little research in those respects could go a long way. Some time back, I did just that and brought an old pair of heresys with me. I listened to a cd I was very familiar with and did an A-B comparison of Parasound ss separates and a Vincent tube hybrid amp. Parasound won by a thin margin. Again, it was all based on my subjective opinion and someone else might have come to the opposite conclusion. Another approach might consist of buying both a tube and a ss amp on the used market (again, brands you have researched and are interested in), compare them in your home and then sell one of them after comparing and deciding on a 'winner.' Best of luck. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ski Bum Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Hmm. Without hearing yourself, it's very difficult to put into words, and the subtleties will never come across via some youtube video. Here are my thoughts. Using linear, unclipped ss as a reference, since that's what you have, consider that "dry", as in unprocessed. Tube amps can be anywhere from as "dry" as ss to fairly "wet", or processed, depending on overall design. Most of us use tube amps because they actually do sound different. (Not much point in a linear tube amp which is inevitably wildly expensive, when linear ss power is so inexpensive.) In my admittedly limited experience, I find pp topologies to be more brassy and bold sounding, and single ended to be more lyrical and choral with a knack for big and deep image/soundstage. Both make linear ss sound relatively anemic and lifeless. Edited June 25, 2014 by Ski Bum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 No comparison exists.Tubes hands down dollar for dollar are more Musical then Solid State costing twice as much. Tech specs are meaningless. If you listen to music you should prefer it to be musical IMHO. Like the line Dean used not long ago...when have you ever heard a tube amp advertised to sound like solid grate 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Tube amps performance can vary depending on speakers and room: the internet is no help. The custom audio shop is a great ideal to hear some really nice amp and nice speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) My meaning was that you often hear someone say how a solid state amp sounds really good, kind of like a tube amp, but you never hear someone say, "wow, that tube amp sounds awesome, almost as good as a solid state amp!" There are tube amps that don't sound as good as some solid state amps, and it's really tied to execution, parts quality, and of course -- expense. Personal taste is a factor too. For example, for low level listening, I still think it's very hard to beat a nicely done Tripath amp -- which I would take over most of the inexpensive Chinese amps that are flooding the market. I don't understand why Craig would say that the specs are meaningless. I think it's better to say that they're misleading. An example here would be distortion figures. Solid state amplifiers will advertise vanishingly low THD specifications, which is done by employing a significant amount of negative feedback. "Tubes are voltage amplifiers as opposed to transistors which are current amplification devices. As a consequence, tubes are a more linear amplification technology, requiring less overall negative feedback to make the circuit linear. Negative feedback re-injects a sample of the amplifier’s output signal back into the input, 180 degrees out of phase, in an attempt to reduce amplifier non-linearity and distortion. In practice, negative feedback tends to slow the amplifier down and sucks the emotion and life out of the music. High feedback designs usually sound sterile, boring and lifeless, while low or zero feedback designs provide for a more immediate and natural sound. Depending on technology and type of the used output device, transistor amplifiers generally require the use of over 40dB of local loop or global negative feedback." Edited June 26, 2014 by DeanG 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justinsweber Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 My meaning was that you often hear someone say how a solid state amp sounds really good, kind of like a tube amp, but you never hear someone say, "wow, that tube amp sounds awesome, almost as good as a tube amp!" There are tube amps that don't sound as good as some solid state amps, and it's really tied to execution, parts quality, and of course -- expense. Personal taste is a factor too. For example, for low level listening, I still think it's very hard to beat a nicely done Tripath amp -- which I would take over most of the inexpensive Chinese amps that are flooding the market. I don't understand why Craig would say that the specs are meaningless. I think it's better to say that they're misleading. An example here would be distortion figures. Solid state amplifiers will advertise vanishingly low THD specifications, which is done by employing a significant amount of negative feedback. "Tubes are voltage amplifiers as opposed to transistors which are current amplification devices. As a consequence, tubes are a more linear amplification technology, requiring less overall negative feedback to make the circuit linear. Negative feedback re-injects a sample of the amplifier’s output signal back into the input, 180 degrees out of phase, in an attempt to reduce amplifier non-linearity and distortion. In practice, negative feedback tends to slow the amplifier down and sucks the emotion and life out of the music. High feedback designs usually sound sterile, boring and lifeless, while low or zero feedback designs provide for a more immediate and natural sound. Depending on technology and type of the used output device, transistor amplifiers generally require the use of over 40dB of local loop or global negative feedback." Nice points. No comparison exists.Tubes hands down dollar for dollar are more Musical then Solid State costing twice as much. Tech specs are meaningless. If you listen to music you should prefer it to be musical IMHO. Like the line Dean used not long ago...when have you ever heard a tube amp advertised to sound like solid grate The compairison question is awsome as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) "Tubes are voltage amplifiers as opposed to transistors which are current amplification devices. As a consequence, tubes are a more linear amplification technology, requiring less overall negative feedback to make the circuit linear. Negative feedback re-injects a sample of the amplifier’s output signal back into the input, 180 degrees out of phase, in an attempt to reduce amplifier non-linearity and distortion. In practice, negative feedback tends to slow the amplifier down and sucks the emotion and life out of the music. High feedback designs usually sound sterile, boring and lifeless, while low or zero feedback designs provide for a more immediate and natural sound. Depending on technology and type of the used output device, transistor amplifiers generally require the use of over 40dB of local loop or global negative feedback." I think this is precisely why Class D, at the better end, makes a lot sense. some of them have the speed necessary to really make a huge difference in sound quality. Edited June 25, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 If I were a two channel listener it would be tube amps hands down. I did at one point purchase a decent pair of McIntosh MC-30's which are a well regarded tube amp. Now granted these had not been gone through and were not using a big dollar tube array. I used them in place of a rare DBX BXI Reference Amplifier that was capable of 400W a channel and sold for about $4K. I ran the MC-30's in conjunction with another DBX BXI running the rears when watching a DVD. I was using a NAD T163 AV Pre/Pro and had the 30's connected to the '88 Klipschorn's (Updated AK-3 networks) mains. I noticed no difference in volume level with the MC-30's as compared the BXI. My NAD could run 2-channel stereo so that is what I used during the comparisons. Once I listened to a few CD's I was familiar with it was easy to tell the midrange was smoother (more lush) and the tweeters sparkled. Despite only being 30W they drove the bass sections with authority. The DBX BXI did come close, I made the decision to sell them only because I could not dedicate a room to two channel and the MC-30's would have benefited by a service and an updated tube complement. A forum member that is a big MC-30 afficianado bought them AudibleNectar. He even offered to send me a pair that he had that were in top shape to see if it would change my mind. The only reason I did not keep them is they were just not practical for my application. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.L. Posted June 25, 2014 Author Share Posted June 25, 2014 Wow….. So much information….. I do have to admit, I’m not a highly educated man, so all these technical terms about how solid state functions and tubes function is quite a bit intimidating, but I do so enjoy my music listening and would love to improve it if I can. This may only be done, as one of you mentioned, by going to an actual shop and hoping the salesman there will be so kind as to let me hear a comparison of the two. Or by purchasing the two different types and selling the one that loses the contest.Hehehe…. I hope I’m not the kind that is going to stick with my Honda Civic (my current solid state) when in fact if I can afford a nice used Lexus (new tube amp) and the sound I want to improve would be…. Improved…Also in keeping with the car comparisons, the bottom line will have come into play. Just wish this was as easy to pick out as a nice acoustic guitar is. Of course, my taste in acoustic guitar sound may very well differ from that of other players or listeners. It just seems to me that there is no cut and dry way about this solid state vs. tube thing. I mean if I had a CD that I liked but thought the sound of it was slightly sub-par on my system, and played that same exact CD on a tube system and it then at that point extremely impressed me, then yes, I would be looking into buying. But just seems to be so much ambiguity on this topic….. At least to a certain degree…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Early solid state did not sound very good. There has been a lo tof progress in the last 50 years and high quality SS can and does sound "as good as tubes." Many new tubes amps sound like what you might expect SS to sound like (VTL is a good example). I have yet to hear a tube system that sounds better than the SS I am using now. I actually had much higher end SS previosuly and have sold it off for less expensive (but still quite good) SS and did nto give anything up (a speaker change was necessary). The last tube system that I heard that was supposed to blow me away was at a dealer. McIntosh (or maybe Manley) if I remember correctly. I sounded great, but no better than what I am using. My 2 cents. To each their own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul79 Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 (edited) Tiger, What solid state are you using now? I do not fully agree with the statement that all early solid state sounded bad..... There was good and bad back then, yes. Same as today. Edited June 25, 2014 by paul79 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 I made a generalization, I am sure they were not all bad. I have Musical Fidelity SS gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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