Foil Inductors, why the new trend?

[Schu]

Just because a part costs more doesn't mean it is particularly better, though I believe a lot of people perceive an improvement due to the price they pay.

Dave

I firmly beleive the diametric... I truly beleive there is an increased critical outlook towards a pricey upgrade, speficially because it is more costly, than a cheaper alternative. Specially for a critical enthusiast that has a base of experience from which to draw a baseline.

[Guest David H]

I truly beleive there is an increased critical outlook towards a pricey upgrade, speficially because it is more costly, than a cheaper alternative. Specially for a critical enthusiast that has a base of experience from which to draw a baseline.

I assume by cheaper you mean less expensive, and not referring to quality. They can be very different.

Are we still talking about Foil Inductors?

Dave

Edited July 27, 2014 by GotHover

[Deang]

Sometimes a thing is overpriced, but you usually get what you pay for, or as Al likes to say, "you pay for what you get". Either way, we normally find that the cost of something is tied to its quality. I do agree with the idea that just because something is expensive and has high quality, doesn't mean it's the right part for the job. Sometimes it matters, sometimes it doesn't.

The plots prove that there is less loss with the use of Litz coils at 6kHz. This has been discussed and pointed out ad-nauseam for years around here.

Since Litz has higher DCR than the same value in the same gauge in a solid core, it's probably not the best choice for a low pass coil - an example of paying too much for the wrong high quality part. CFC in the same position is also paying too much, but not because it's the wrong part for the job, but because a solid air core will probably sound just as good for less money. I say ""probably", because I honestly don't know - I haven't directly compared. I do know the CFCs in my system sound different than the stock iron cores, and the DCR components are very close.

Since air cores don't suffer from several of the issues that other types do, I've decided to build with them as much as possible. Customers have a choice, I can only tell them what I would do if they were my networks.

It seems silly to me to get wound up over a little bit of power loss in a high pass circuit that is routinely attenuated with autotransformers and resistors.

[Guest David H]

Since Litz has higher DCR than the same value in the same gauge in a solid core, it's probably not the best choice for a low pass coil - an example of paying too much for the wrong high quality part.

You could not be more correct, it would be a waste to use Litz for a low pass coil. A P-core Super Q or a heavy gauge solid wire Air core would be a better choice.

It seems silly to me to get wound up

That's clever considering the topic.

Dave

[Axz Hout]

y

[Skelt]

For $1100 I wish they were closer than +-5%

[Deang]

For that kind of money I want silver coated enamel -- copper is sooo boring.

[babadono]

DUELUND-70981 QTY ADD

2.5 mH, PIO Cast, Copper, Inductor 12AWG, Each

$1,316.00 $1,118.00 pcX USD Price

This looks like the size in my "AA" networks. The bass experiences thru this must sound expensive.

Yeah but these are "cast"($0.13 of epoxy) so the "air"(?) core stays the same dimension.

[mike stehr]

Bend over...

[Deang]

Lol. : )

[djk]

Refurbish your AA networks (caps and coils) or buy a new car?

[Guest David H]

Here are the results of the P-Core vs. Super Q inductor.

As you can see the P-Core has a very linear inductance and an overall higher Q.

The Super Q has a higher Q at 400 hz.

Dave

[mark1101]

The differences in measurements are pretty obvious. How do they sound compared to one another?

[Guest David H]

The differences in measurements are pretty obvious. How do they sound compared to one another?

If the values were identical, I doubt anyone could hear the difference in a blind test.

This is a comparison of Q and Inductance pertaining to different types of inductors.

Dave

[Guest David H]

Now for the Sledge Hammer inductor.

Also looks very good.

Dave

[Full Range]

Foil Inductors, why the new trend?

Where are you seeing this "trend"?

Google it.

There are a lot of companies pushing foils as the best choice.

I also saw in one of the threads here on the forums one member removed the Litz in favor of Foil. Seems like a step backwards.

I have a few but quit using them because Hepa Litz performed better for my application.

ALK and I have been running a few tests, seems although the Litz has the highest Q , the Foils came in second. Both were a far cry better than solid for HF.

Dave

You mentioned a member changing from Litz to foil inductors

That would be me - but a little context is in order

All my speaker drivers fitted to the La Scalas differ from original and fitting foil inductors was an experiment to see if I could get some more definition from the mid and high range

As you indicated in your post - it's what suits ones application

The change to foil inductors were also made in conjunction with other components so the build has to be seen as a recipe of many ingredients

The end result is delicious

Edited August 7, 2014 by Full Range

[Deang]

I stopped using the Sledgehammers from Madisound. For every four or five they sent me, I would get one where the laminations were loose, and you could slide them back and forth. They may measure well, but they're poorly made. Do the measurements show that?

The Erse Super 'Q' inductors aren't dipped in anything, just wound -- another example of a poorly made coil in my opinion.

Janzten at least has the sense to make an attempt to remove the air from the between the windings. I like their products.

The UT iron cores are well made and rock solid. I'm having those made on the larger frame, with the larger wire and wax impregnated.

[Full Range]

I stopped using the Sledgehammers from Madisound. For every four or five they sent me, I would get one where the laminations were loose, and you could slide them back and forth. They may measure well, but they're poorly made. Do the measurements show that?

The Erse Super 'Q' inductors aren't dipped in anything, just wound -- another example of a poorly made coil in my opinion.

Janzten at least has the sense to make an attempt to remove the air from the between the windings. I like their products.

The UT iron cores are well made and rock solid. I'm having those made on the larger frame, with the larger wire and wax impregnated.

Thanks for your expert clarification of how an item is treated in manufacture can affect it's performance

I forgot to mention that I used the Jantzen wax foil coils in my crossovers for the very way they were treated with wax in there manufacture

[Guest David H]

I stopped using the Sledgehammers from Madisound. For every four or five they sent me, I would get one where the laminations were loose, and you could slide them back and forth. They may measure well, but they're poorly made. Do the measurements show that?

I have never run in to that issue. The hold down screw runs right through the laminations holding them in place.

The UT iron cores are well made and rock solid. I'm having those made on the larger frame, with the larger wire and wax impregnated.

Excellent, sounds like a well built part. Are you going to submit one to ALK for testing?

Dave

[Guest David H]

The end result is delicious

Nice.

I really love that speaker. If I ever did another Lascala, I think I would clone the one you have.

Dave