roy Posted March 15, 2001 Share Posted March 15, 2001 Textok anyone have any experience with dvd audio yet?? did everyone read the sound& vision magazine last month and this month about the glitch with dvd audio that there is no bass management yet for dvd audio outputs on these players? this is a crucial flaw i understand and that unless you have 5 speakers that are all full range speakers and not satellite types you may miss the bass on some dvd audio discs...lets get some talk here about te new dvd audio format that supposedly is going to kick the pants off the old cds and even the new multichannel dts cds too!!i have been reading quite a bit about this new exciting format and i see the players are just starting to come onto the market now!! ------------------ my equipment: klipsch rf-3 (main) klipsch center ch speaker boston acoustics (rear) mirage ss-1500 subwoofer yamaha 795 receiver driving center and rears adcom 545 amp driving rf-3s mirage subwoofer 1500 watts! sony 650 dvd/cd player sony minidisc/cd player combo panasonic hifi vcr waiting to see what new reference line will sound like in 2001!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 I don't have a problem at all with the lack of an LFE channel. All of the Pre/Pros and Receivers I've had contacts with have a sub configuration that will send low bass to a subwoofer. I did not see the article, but if the DVD-A can't essentially equal the performance of vinyl, I'm not interested. I think that means a very high sampling rate to ensure near perfect waveform reproduction (much better than CDs' 16 bit/44.1 kHz). John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibel man Posted March 16, 2001 Share Posted March 16, 2001 John, the issue of bass management is pretty crucial because most receivers do not have bass management on 6 channel annolog inputs. Typically the receiver does not filter bass out of the full range channels as it does with DTS or DD digital inputs. To highten the problem, the recording labels have been putting pressure on the the component manufacturers so they do not provide a digital out on the players. This forces us to use our multi-channel "future proof" analog inputs. If we cannot use the receiver's dac the player needs to have bass management features. I think this will be a fantastic media for the future once all of the corporate people take their hands out of our pockets and allow us the same connectivity as DVD-V players. The receiver manufacturers are chomping at the bit for this to move forward so we will go out and buy a receiver with 24 bit 192kHz dac's. Just my two cents. JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 I've been looking forward to some form of multi-channel music for a long time. I really hate to see two competing formats, though. Why can't the industry get on the same page, as with the CD? And this "no digital output" business is also ridiculous. It's just corporate greed and paranoia. I really don't have a preference as to DVD-A or SACD, as I think both will sound fantastic. I do think that SACD is a somewhat more elegant system. Or maybe that's just my Sony bias coming out. But what I really want is players with digital outputs that will handle either format. And while I'm asking, I also want preamps/integrated amps/receivers with good flexible surround for mono and two channel music. Surround that doesn't degrade the original signal. And lastly, I want DVD-A and/or SACD recorders. Is that asking too much? ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 5 channels = 5 speakers + 5 speaker stands + 5 sets of cables = 5X MARGINS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roy Posted March 18, 2001 Author Share Posted March 18, 2001 hey i dont think u have to spend 1000s of $$$ to get real good amplification! I have a pretty powerful and excellent sounding system i think overall with multiple amplification between the two amps driving the speakers and my super powerful mirage amp built into the subwoofer...some people are obsessed with believing that they have to spend $5000 on a 2 ch amp alone..this is BS.... its just that they can afford to buy an amp that costs that much and start to think that they are hearing the differences. They go to the extreme. ------------------ my equipment: klipsch rf-3 (main) klipsch center ch speaker boston acoustics (rear) mirage ss-1500 subwoofer yamaha 795 receiver driving center and rears adcom 545 amp driving rf-3s mirage subwoofer 1500 watts! sony 650 dvd/cd player sony minidisc/cd player combo panasonic hifi vcr waiting to see what new reference line will sound like in 2001!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drobo1 Posted March 18, 2001 Share Posted March 18, 2001 Forget DVD-Audio. Get a SACD player and enjoy the best that digital playback has ever sounded. drobo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 The limitation implied by having to spread a finite audio budget over multiple channels instead of just two could be lessened if we could safely assume the SOP for multi-channel recording would be to keep everything except ambience cues in the front three channels, which would be the "high fidelity " way of doing things, anyway. This way the bulk of the speaker/amp budget could be lavished on those front three channels. Since the surround channels would normally contain just reverb, echo, crowd noise and the like, the performance there could safely be more limited, because the signal is more limited. Somebody say amen. ------------------ JDMcCall Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 amen* jd! *if I could find some way to get my cornwalls in the front ------------------ RF-3 (front), RC-3, Cornwall I (rear) Velodyne HGS-18 sub Monsterbass 400 sub cables & Monster Z-12 wire Sony de935 a/v receiver Sony DVP-C650D dvdp Sony Trinitron 27" tv Technics dual cassette deck Technics direct drive turntable Scientific Atlanta Explorer 2000 digital cable box rock on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibel man Posted March 19, 2001 Share Posted March 19, 2001 JD, I remember reading an article on DVD-A that discussed just what you are talking about. Infact, it discussed the ability to use more bits and faster rates on the three front channels than the rears. This technique will be used more to convert older recordings to DVD-A than it will be used to record in multi-channel. A couple of issues back in S&V, Neil Young had some extensive views about the future use of DVD-A that were right on with what I wanted to hear. The next step of coarse is to get the manufacturers and copyright people together so we can get the correct equipment. This could be a big problem. JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 As I am about four months behind in my audiofool reading, I have not yet seen what Neil had to say concerning DVD-A, SACD, etc. But from what I have read, it doesn't look good at all that taste and common sense will prevail in these early days of multi-channel recording. I have read of a few pop recordings where they just slung everything all around the room like that was supposed to be really cool. (wow dude, a geetar over my left shoulder, man!) And those tone deaf videots over at S&V liked it. Of course, they also were quite satisfied with the sound of one of those hard drive music shrinkers that encodes everything at about the same bit rate as an on-line record store music sample. Face it music loving audiophiles; We are a minority within a minority. In other words, video walks all over audio, and mainstream audio kicks sand in the face of audiophiles. But hope springs eternal in the minds of fools and audiodweebs. And I hold out hope that when the "gee-whiz" newness of multi-channel music wears off, record makers - and the vast majority of record buyers - will come to their senses and realize that recorded music should be presented in the home the same way live music is presented. Now excuse me while I go towel off. -Disco Ruby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boa12 Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 hopefully w/ their technological advances, we'll some day have electronics that give us just what we want w/ the flip of a switch. f.e., all they have to do is give us receiver modes that let US designate which channel(s) go to which specific speakers. then we could manipulate the mix more to our liking. shouldn't be too far off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibel man Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 James, I understand the ranting, beleive me. The article I mentioned with Neil is quite refreshing in that he may be one of a few musicians that is already behind DVD-A, but is greatly concerned about the quality of the musical presentation and not just the marketing. He stated that he does not like CD recording because of the limitation of the 16 bit 44.1 kHz parameters. He even said that some of his recordings will not be in multi-channel, but just stereo, pointing out that some of his recordings should not be listened to in multi-channel format. He does not want to start releasing multi-channel to just sell another copy of a song, he truely believes that the 24 bit 192 kHz capability is an overwhelming improvement compared to CD. I believe he also said he was going to release some old recordings that he never released on CD due to it's deficiencies. The people involved with DVD-A have a long way to go, but I am optimistic on its long term future. I think it is a lot like HDTV, it is going to be a long road before it is accepted by the general population. It will probably be a bumpy ride too. JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted March 20, 2001 Share Posted March 20, 2001 Hey Drobo, shhh. Please quit telling people about SACD. Next thing you know, others will find out that SACD is incredible sounding and the best thing since the Khorn. That would make demand for SACD disks rise and I wouldn't be able to find the titles I want at my nearby store...hey, wait just a second! I CAN'T find them now either. SACD RULES! If you haven't listened to it yet, get to the nearest store that has a machine on display. Listen through any set of speakers or even cheapo headphones. The superiority is unmistakable. If you like records, you're gonna love SACD. If you like digital, you're gonna love SACD. If you want a single machine that plays all shiny disk formats, you're outta luck. BOY, my new avatar is cool ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decibel man Posted March 21, 2001 Share Posted March 21, 2001 Good news guys! Burr Brown (Texas Instruments) has developed a chip that will be used in future DAC's that can handle just about any digital audio format including, SACD, DVD-A, DVD-V, and CD. It will not be available in the near future, but it is also not very expensive according to Stereophile. The story is in the April issue on page 20 under the "US: Texas" heading. The unusual thing is that the article is rather hidden considering the importance of the possiblity of a true multi-format player. JT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Palm Posted April 1, 2001 Share Posted April 1, 2001 I went looking for DVD Audio the other day.You would think that in a city the size of Shreveport there would be someone who would have some knowledge of this exciting new medium. NONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Went to three different stores and received blank expressions. Anyone from the Shreveport area know any music store that carries DVD Audio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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