JL Sargent Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 You would think they should be in phase, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted August 18, 2014 Share Posted August 18, 2014 Nice!!! I'd really like to get my ears on a set of those subs. The belle was underwhelming. A friend of mine has a pair of Belles and I honestly believe my Chorus II's sound WAAY better. To be fair our rooms and electronics are no where near the same and I'm sure that has a lot to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2014 I'll let Michael give an explanation on why he chose to setup the system with those settings. I know he mentioned to me that it was intentional to have the amps out of phase of each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Nice setup, thanks for sharing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrappydue Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I questioned the phase as well. Unless something is wired wrong internally either in the subs or amps they should be in phase on the same wall like that. Otherwise they would start canceling each other out 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Thank you for this very interesting thread. Out of curiosity, what is that, under the Palladiums? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2014 No problem. Out of curiosity, what is that, under the Palladiums? It is a base plate that they sit on. I'm assuming they come with the purchase of Palladiums. I was told that many of the very high end speakers have a platform that they sit on. I wouldn't know first hand as I have never owned any of that caliber. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Thanks; me, either, LoL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sancho Panza Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Pics on the Klipsch website show those platforms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 I questioned the phase as well. Unless something is wired wrong internally either in the subs or amps they should be in phase on the same wall like that. Otherwise they would start canceling each other out Agreed. As long as they're in the same plane as the mains, the phase should be at 0. The exception would be a horn sub. You can play with phase and distance settings to get it in sync with the mains. Great pics Michael. I'd hate for you to take pics of my gear though. I'd have to dust for a week first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Youthman Posted August 19, 2014 Author Moderators Share Posted August 19, 2014 Pics on the Klipsch website show those platforms. Looks like all three Palladiums come with the platforms Agreed. As long as they're in the same plane as the mains, the phase should be at 0. Michael....where are you bro? Guys have some questions about your Phase Selection. Great pics Michael. I'd hate for you to take pics of my gear though. I'd have to dust for a week first! If I took photos of your gear, I would dust them for you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 (edited) Hey guys a forewarning this will be a long detailed response. You are welcome to scold me for such craziness after reading for my ridiculous long response… Now that we are underway, this is what I experienced with the phase adjustment. Normally wholeheartedly I agree with you guys. When I was In the beginning stages of my theater I did as others suggested and placed 1 sub on the middle of each wall balanced but not practical for my room. Tried stacking 2 in each corner (created the most bass but bloaty and boomy) and then after looking at several photos of peoples theaters with subs directly under their screen or behind their screen on the main wall including the picture from the THX ultra 2 brochure I figured why not try these 4 subwoofers co-located in a row on the main wall. Aesthetically I liked the way it looked that way but I wanted to see if I could get better in room response. This is what I found. It yielded the best in room response for my particular room for each of the 4 seats in my theater. Now if I had a even larger theater with a couple tiers of seats that may have been different but I can get excellent deep and powerful in room response with all 4 under the screen front and center. I’m not saying it is great for every room but it certainly worked the best in my particular room. Now with all 4 located on the front wall I of course set the phase on both KA-1000 amplifiers to 0 as would any of us sat back ran Mcacc at the time and it sounded great. I spent a lot of time messing with each control on the amps such as THX on or off (definitely recommend off) and Boundary gain compensation (definitely off) etc. Now I always understood it that 0 on the front wall, 180 on the back and 90 on side walls. I began reading further about people having subs next to each other and tweaking the phase a bit (some peoples avrs or processor allow them to slowly adjust phase while sitting in their seat via a remote) to get it where they hear the constant bass tone/sine wave at a set volume to feel and sound the deepest. I figure why not try it. What I attempted was first setting the phase on my two L KW-120s which was just slightly above 0 which gave me the best sounding even bass from my seat or MLP. Just a touch over 0 and I felt that resonating deep bass to be the most even. Now when I turned on the right two subs on my other KA-1000 amp to the same phase it sounded just fine and even but sitting in my seat I had my wife very slowly turn it up in small increments as and she would get further away from the other 2 subs phase I felt it slowly get a little deeper. The volume on both amp and in the processor stayed the same during the test. The further I turned the phase up the deep it got in all 4 seats as I swapped back and forth to make sure and just at about 90 degrees from the first setting they sort of worked together and gave me the deepest bass from each seat in my theater. If I were to turn it up past 90 degrees it would start to lose that resonating bass. Now this may be a strange anomaly for my particular room but I did try the same method just out of curiosity in my friend’s house who purchased the KW-120s and I asked him if he heard and felt what I did (this was just before Michael came over) and he agreed. I’m not sure why to be honest but it is completely subjective I would assume. Now this could have been all 4 passive co-located subs acting strangely with one another on my wall I’m not certain. With them at this setting when I ran ARC when I first purchased my D2v processor I did get a nearly perfect flat response from all 12 mic positions when running ARC with them phased this way. ARC has you move the boom/mic and stand too twelve different locations as it runs its test to get a good in room response and I can upload my old graphs tonight for everyone to see). All this being said, when my two JTRs coming this week after I have them properly installed I plan to have them in a similar location now that I have power con power cables run there etc it makes sense to leave them there and I will probably leave them phased at 0 since there isn’t a phase adjustment knob on the plate amps apparently and see what arc does for them in my room. hopefully I explained this the best I could from what I experienced but I could be completely wrong and someone may be able to explain why this happened I’m unsure. Again with the Dual Cap S2s I will only be able to adjust phase with my processor and most likely ARC will set it up correctly for me unless I use REW sub software. Edited August 19, 2014 by MichaelandKlipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 What were you using when you conducted the test? Sine waves, pink noise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Sine waves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 What frequency? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 30hz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Were your mains engaged and if so, at what frequency is your crossover set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Not when I ran the sine wave test, I don’t use main+lfe or anything I have my entire system crossed at 80hz. I pan to leave the crossover set at 80hz for the new subwoofer installation as well but I’m sure these new sealed subs will play different and be 4 times the output. I’m not sure why they don’t have phase control on them. Now when we did this in his house it was a slight different tone we got but still yielded the best bass. Michael arrived after we finished most of the initial setup. We then played an excerpt from a movie and also listened to a concert dvd of the eagles 4db past reference. Of what we heard the Subs and bass were definitely the show stealer and not lacking in depth punch or evenness. Youth I believe will agree here. When we listened to them they were all 4 engaged and the settings at what you see in the photo provided by Youth. In every other installation I have always just set the sub to 0 if on the main wall 180 on the rear or 90 on the sides. I just helped a friend this past weekend install HSU 7.1 speaker system in his house in which we set his subwoofer phase to 0 as it was in the front corner of his room behind the tv. First time I have heard HSU speakers but they were very detailed and sounded nice. His sub went fairly low too as I could easily feel the 20 hz material. Ok off topic there! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 Not to further derail, I'll send a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelandKlipsch Posted August 20, 2014 Share Posted August 20, 2014 (edited) Carl I snapped a quick photo of my sub graph from the D2v processor. Now this was with all 4 on the phase at what we spoke about after the calibrated mic took 12 different positions of recordings and calculated the room EQ. The Red line was the measured, the blue dotted line is the targeted, and the green line is the calculated eq that the Anthem Processor applied. Wait a minute you use a D2 you probably already know all that lol. anyway the D2v definitely has some incredible processing power. Simply one of the finest pieces of equipment I have ever owned. Im sorry for the laziness of me just snapping photos off my computer instead of a proper screen shot. All thi aside I still plan to do what we discussed in our PM and have the dual caps set at 0 and let ARC perform magic. Edited August 20, 2014 by MichaelandKlipsch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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