Marvel Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 BTW, Dean does crossovers, too. Seeing those cans on those crossovers, they must surely be out of spec. What woofers are in those you have? Depending on the year, they should be EV with cast frames. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Well, as usual, most everyone here loves spending your money....you're not going to find Sirius on dual monos, so you should be looking at an AVR. I say keep it simple, because there's no doubt in my mind that you're probably not going to use most of the functionality of an AVR after considering what you have termed your listening habits and requirements above. So again, I highly recommend the Yamaha Aventage series AVRs. Have everything you need and more. Looking for something specific with Audyssey is overkill, IMHO. Looking hard at Aventage. I understand it can be set for dedicated 2 channel. Many changes in audio arena sinc I was active. I guess that's what you get for back-burnering for 30 years. Getting up to speed with info here. Edited August 24, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) BTW, Dean does crossovers, too. Seeing those cans on those crossovers, they must surely be out of spec. What woofers are in those you have? Depending on the year, they should be EV with cast frames. Bruce All I know is see the woofer magnet with woofer ID on it in the XO pic. I have a capacitance meter at my small engine shop. If there's a spec, I can disconnect and test. OK. See pic next Post. Edited August 24, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) BTW, Dean does crossovers, too. Seeing those cans on those crossovers, they must surely be out of spec. What woofers are in those you have? Depending on the year, they should be EV with cast frames. Bruce Doesn't look cast to me. Edited August 24, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Are they still positioned like that? If so, you need to flip them and tilt them so that the sound is shooting directly into the listening area.I didn't understand your hearing loss numbers. It reads like you said it begins to drop at 2kHz and ends at 8kHz, where it is 60dB down - which implies nothing above that - is that accurate or am I misunderstanding? Much of what you are perceiving would be dominated by the hearing issues. For example, if you can't hear the tweeters, you would mostly be hearing the squawkers - and they're called "squawkers" for a reason. Here's a few better pics showing how they're mounted and oriented within the room. I'm standing in the kitchen area. The family room has one step down so 8' high. Edited August 24, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 I will mention that inverting, re-orienting, putting on floor etc etc DOES effect the 'shading' of the sound but not the core characteristic which started this whole thing. Maybe I need to find someone here in CNY who has HR1,2 or 3's I can borrow to compare. If I liked theirs better than mine, could try their XO in mine. That would point to the resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 If I liked theirs better than mine, could try their XO in mine. The HII and HIII crossovers are mounted to the input cup, which would make them hard to switch out. An original Heresy would have crossovers like yours, and if not upgraded would probably sound pretty much the same. Seriously, you'll need to talk with DeanG, Al K., or Bob C. to find out the options. My preference would be Dean, as his are tweaked to get the most out of them. Pricing for all of these varies quite a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 IMG_0985.JPG BTW, Dean does crossovers, too. Seeing those cans on those crossovers, they must surely be out of spec. What woofers are in those you have? Depending on the year, they should be EV with cast frames. Bruce Doesn't look cast to me. Are my woofers EV? No reference to EV on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) If I liked theirs better than mine, could try their XO in mine.The HII and HIII crossovers are mounted to the input cup, which would make them hard to switch out. An original Heresy would have crossovers like yours, and if not upgraded would probably sound pretty much the same. Seriously, you'll need to talk with DeanG, Al K., or Bob C. to find out the options. My preference would be Dean, as his are tweaked to get the most out of them. Pricing for all of these varies quite a bit. I guess I could still try someone's HR's just to see without XO changes from theirs to mine Edited August 24, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Welcome, Much of the advice given is good, even if it seems somewhat contradictory. Ultimately, there are no absolutes, what's right for you won't be right for everyone else. I'm 65 with high freqency hearing loss in both ears but I still enjoy critical listening to 2 channel in the same space as my modest HT. I enjoy the complexity of being able to quickly switch between sources (vinyl, Bluetooth iPod, Roku, CD, etc.), amps (tubes, chip amps, AVR/Audyssey, vintage receivers, etc.) and speakers (Heritage, DIY BR, DIY horns, tapped horns, etc.). You seem to need something much less complicated. If I were setting up a system for use as you describe, I'd keep it simple with a receiver with a phono section. I'd contact Bob Crites regarding crossovers. As has been said, the can caps are surely round the bend. I agree with the suggestions to invert the speakers and angle them down pointing into the space. I'd also add a DIY tapped horn sub or two or four, but I doubt you want to go that route. See https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/138019-25hz-tapped-horn/ My son enjoys a Hersey & Harman Kardon 430 system for use similar to yours. It so happens that I will soon have a h/k 730 (possibly 2) and a h/k 630 that have been expertly refurbished electronically. I expect to retain one and look for good homes for the other two. See https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/136475-hk-430-reborn-thanks-to-forum-networking/ The ideal situation would be for a local forum member to be able to let you hear options at his/her place, or better yet, to bring speakers and power sources to your place. IMO good used or DIY are much better than putting yourself at the mercy of the millennial at the box store, but you might prefer, or need, the convenience. A little help from your Klipsch forum friends might make all the difference. One more suggestion. My wife is more than content to listen to Steely Dan, and the like, though a Klipsch iGroove SXT from eBay via Pandora and her smart phone and Bluetooth. That system will never satisfy your SRV needs, but the cost and simplicity allow you to direct your time and money toward the other system. If her iGroove were to bight the dust, another could be quickly gotten from eBay for under $100. See https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/140889-bluetooth-connection-to-klipsch-igroove/ Feel free to contact me by PM or email to get my phone number if you'd like to discuss any of the suggestions or warnings you've received in this thread. Best, Neil Edited August 24, 2014 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 "HSM" - Heresy Stage Monitor. From what I can see, it uses the same crossover and components as the normal Heresy. There is no port like the "HIP", so the enclosure is the same too. The normal complaint is "harshness" and/or "the midrange is just too much". The harshness issue is often related to air overload in the throat of the horn from very loud level listening. Old capacitors contribute to this somewhat due to dielectric breakdown.The second issue is related to placement. The Heresy was designed to be placed in a corner. When you take them out of the corner, you lose a lot of bass, and so naturally the midrange dominates the sonic signature. I modify existing networks or sell new ones for those who prefer to pull them out from the corners, put them on stands, etc., -- but that isn't the case here -- since you clearly have them in corners where they're supposed to be. There is a massive difference in sound quality between modern day mid-line AVRs and the kind of stuff we used to use what is now an unbelievable 25-30 years ago. I've decided to start asking people what they are willing to spend to fix their problems. I see this a lot on other forums, and it makes sense. For example, if you only have $300.00, you're not going to be able to buy the kind of receiver or integrated that's going to satisfy your needs. I use what is now considered an "old receiver" with my LaScalas -- a Luxman r-117. I think you should be looking at slightly used NAD integrated amplifiers at http://www.audiogon.com Yes, you need new capacitors. You can spend a little or spend a lot. With ALL of this stuff, you will most absolutely get what you pay for -- there's no free lunch. Give me your subwoofer money and I'll save your ears. : ) Regardless of what you decide -- you have to flip those Heresys and tilt them into the listening area. Even so, they are so far apart that I don't think you should expect them to fill the big hole in the middle. Like many, I have two systems. I have one for two-channel listening, and another for HT. They are very different. So, tell me the truth -- how loud do you listen? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) So, tell me the truth -- how loud do you listen? How loud? We live in a 1700 sq ft early 80's colonial. For background music sx626 volume control barely turned up. Sometimes wife still says turn it down. Say's too much 'competition' for talking. Maybe it's the horns. It is at this level that I miss Yamaha Variable Loudness. Upstairs, can't even hear sys is on. Using my Sound Meter Lite App around 35dB. Crude but better than nothing. No need to turn 626 up past a little over half way. Definitely have to talk loud and be close to the person. Probably under dance floor level but not by much. Easy to hear thruout the house. Same App about 82-84dB. Two examples that sound great at the half way level or higher with my 626 is SRV Lenny and Leeann Rimes Blue. These come to mind as I write. The system sounds full and breathing. The presence is jaw dropping as I'm sure you know. 82-84dB. At lower volumes, all that seems to be left is the highs and mids. I don't remember my HR's being this way. Then again, that was a while ago. FYI...OK-OK! You can sleep tonite. I inverted the speakers. I don't expect the hole to be filled. Never did. Could do that with dome radiators but couldn't handle those. I'd starve. Thx, Joe Edited August 25, 2014 by wldrns1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted August 24, 2014 Share Posted August 24, 2014 One thing to keep in mind with your wife's Sirius, you do not need a Sirius ready unit to hookup the Sirius radio of course. Thinking you know this as you are probably listening now to SatRad. Do not know if they would transfer account existing now to authorize a new unit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Share Posted August 24, 2014 (edited) Found someone local who has vintage HR(1)'s. Original owner. No upgrades. Explained my situation and very agreeable to let me compare to mine at my house this Tuesday. Should help sort things out. I believe I will be able to tell if the character of HR vs HSM is different. Sitting next to each other on the floor. We'll see & I'll post. Want to mention, if anyone has Gregg Allman's 'Just Before the Bullets Fly', listen to Slip Away. There is a SAX that plays an accent note thruout the lyrics. On my system now, doesn't stand out like before. I remember you could even hear the air and a distinct body in the repeating note. As for critical listening, taking that to mean sitting in the perfect spot, proper speaker placement, with everything just so. Nothing wrong with that at all. Used to do some of that back when. Today I enjoy simply filling the house. I guess you could say I'm listening critically but don't really do any excusive critical listening. Till Tuesday eve. Edited August 24, 2014 by wldrns1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 26, 2014 Author Share Posted August 26, 2014 There is a massive difference in sound quality between modern day mid-line AVRs and the kind of stuff we used to use what is now an unbelievable 25-30 years ago. Give me your subwoofer money and I'll save your ears. : ) Like many, I have two systems. I have one for two-channel listening, and another for HT. They are very different. DeanG: I edited out some of your post. Massive difference? Learning. In layman's terms, explain a little. Worse or better now etc...? Sub money/save ears? I see humor. Suggesting what? What is HT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 (edited) Dean- Do you have a h/k 730 from Colter via Dale? If so, how's it working. Don't you think a refurbished h/k X30 would suit the OP? Simple to use, plenty of power for Heresy speakers, an excellent FM section and a good phono section. Many modern units aren't as well made and lack a phono section. The features they might include seem to be beyond the stated needs of Wldrns1. Wldrns1- HT stands for Home Theater, which is a whole other conversation from getting your Heresies to play SRV as background music in a large space, rather than for "critical" listening. Edited August 26, 2014 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 I have one, but it quit working, I'm pretty sure it wasn't refurbished because I tried to get that done, but the person who was doing those, stopped. My Luxman sounds a lot better, but now I'm having some issues with it. That's the problem with taking the vintage route - the stuff needs work, and if you do nothing, the sound suffers and you don't know how long it's going to last. I like the higher end Pioneer AVRs with the ICE modules -- those are worthy of consideration, but they're not inexpensive. The sound he is remembering is gone, and you don't get it back easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 26, 2014 Share Posted August 26, 2014 Before we had subwoofers, we had modest sized cabinets that we ran with integrated amps and receivers from Onkyo, Pioneer, Sansui, NAD, etc., that sounded smooth and open with a lot of punch. Most of them weighed over 40 pounds because of the robust builds and large power supplies. My more modern Denon is nice, but it's just not capable of recreating the effect of the earlier units. So ... we add a sub or two, and/or an external/outboard amplifier, and then find we are finally there, but we also find that we didn't "get there" without opening the wallet up a bit. "HT" is Home Theater. I was being facetious. I think you need your crossovers rebuilt, but think you have other, outstanding issues -- the placement issue especially -- which you've addressed, but it's still not optimum. If you want to talk crossovers, you can always message or email me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wldrns1 Posted August 27, 2014 Author Share Posted August 27, 2014 Tried both HR1 std enclose and my HSM Industrials. Placed just one out of the corner on a chair making note of the bass response. Tried different level and volumes. No A-B switch but could easily tell. Balance all the way to the test side. 2 sets of ears. NO DIFFERENCE! The std enclosures did sound different (worse) in the mids but probably due to unknown degree of cap deterioration which is beyond me to test. I'm moving on to the power plant area. You can find a post 'Scott 299' about that piece. Also doing at least new caps in the HSM's for sure or even XO's eventually. One thing at a time. Did without anything for 10 years. No need to rush. Interesting. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 You have a number of options but if you are ready for a substantial change I'd think about some Cornwalls. Otherwise all your electronics have to go to move up a level. Changing speakers is always the best way to make a major change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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