Jump to content

H/K 430 Receiver


Recommended Posts

Well...

I finally got my first H/K 430 in today. It is in excellent condition as advertised, and after cleaning the controls with some cleaner/lube and giving it time to evaporate off...I temporarily hooked it up to the Heresys and the cd player to "give it a listen"....

Simply Amazing!!!! Hard to believe it isn't a tube unit and only has 25 wpc rating...much less that it cost me in total less than a couple of tanksfull of gasoline!! Smile.gif

One of the hi-fi mags has reviews of older equipment and the reviewer had the following to say about this model:

"Harman/Kardon 430 receiver. Long discontinued, this is the king of receivers, a unit that plays bass with power, form, and authority. It also plays unusually well over the entire rest of the spectrum. This is still the pacesetter for musical balance and enjoyment, not to mention its uncanny accuracy of instrumental signatures. If you have a high-resolution system, and speakers that know how to project music, you might join the growing numbers of people who have junked their expensive separates in favor of this 25-watt-per-channel masterpiece. Modifications upset the equilibrium of the 430, so just make sure controls and switches are clean, and the fuses secure. I often use a high-quality separate preamp driving the 430's aux input, or, occasionally, driving the power amp's section direct. Other HK models of this vintage, such as the 730, are not comparable."

Well...I ain't an expert and nobody is beating down my doors asking me to review equipment for an audio mag...but this little (heavy as hell for what it is) baby is definitely a keeper!!! It sounds so clean and clear that it makes you wonder if it can possibly be as old as it is (circa 1975)!!!, much less a S/S unit from that era!!! Just another example of the advantages of H/K's old twin-powered receivers over those others with only one power supply for both channels being driven...I AM ONE HAPPY CAMPER....AND...I HAVE A SECOND ONE ON THE WAY, TOO!!!! I wonder if it will arrive before or after my second 800+ arrives??? Smile.gif

------------------

I can now receive private messages

This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 07-25-2002 at 09:56 PM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do realize you could have bought a few highly regarded vintage tube amps by now? Still trying to figure this one out. I know you want to build your own tube gear... but the stuff you could have had would really surprise you. Why all the H/K SS amps? $150 could have bought some VERY nice stuff the last month; Stuff, I dare say, that I believe would have made you closet that new harmon Kardon. Multiple amps makes little sense.

Old habits die hard...

kh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KH,

I have been searching eBay and haven't seen what I want in the price I want to pay as of yet...but this is the end of the old S/S purchases...now onward to some tubes...like I said in another post...what I HAVE seen is a few questionable units going for too much money...but I have also been gathering up a list of stuff with which to build something...and searching eBay and other sites for what I don't have that I WILL NEED!! I will soon have some free time to cruise the estate sales around here, too...seems that on occassion something out of the ordinary in tube stuff comes along...and I also have a line on a possible McIntosh purchase...negotiating that right now...seems this gentleman wants a good home for it more than a pile of cash...good thing!!!

Actually these recent purchases are not just for me...I am trying to outfit a friend on the cheap with some stuff she has wanted. One of the 430's will end up her daughter's, and one of the 800+'s will end up hers. So...I will end up with just around 140 bucks total spent on the 800+ and 430 I end up keeping...not too bad as far as I am concerned! Eventually I want HT, but have to have a place for it first...so until then I will settle for what I CAN HAVE!! At least I will soon have a pair of oak LaScalas and at least one pair of oak LaScala cabinets for somebody who is interested in them!! Smile.gif

------------------

I can now receive private messages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HDBRbuilder,

The H/K twinpowered series receivers are the most musical receivers of their time.

I have recently hooked up my H/k 630 after years of neglection and was amazed by the sound quality.

I think it is a real bargain with a built quality to last a lifetime.After listening to it,you can often ask yourself if the audio industry did progress in the last 30 years?

I think that it gets the same answer regarding Klipsch Heritage series-PROBABLY NOTcwm16.gif.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Interesting comments. So you put this series of H/K against any modern SS amp? Well, this will surely be a first in my experience and almost worth buying one for cheap to see what you are talking about. Hardly any SS integrateds interest me anymore, especially those from the 70s as I only have one left (a mid-70s Yamaha Natuaral Sound CR-800) having sold all the others off(I gave a bevy of NAD integrateds to my family). I will admit that I have not hooked any up to Klipsch Heritage as I dont particularly like any SS on them, although some do better than others. The Monarchy Audio SM-70 was not that bad but not my choice for long term ownership.

So you guys say the Twin-Powered stuff is really magical? I might just buy one to see. Andy, wanna let me try one???

kh

Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point

CD Player Rega Planet

Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified

Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks

Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect

Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover

Links system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s>

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-26-2002 at 09:14 AM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the old H/K's with dual power supplies. I know a family with several of those old H/K's, and they swear by them - and I do too. Another hidden H/K gem: Look for the PM665 integrated amplifier. If you want rock concert sound out of your Klipsch, check this one out. Dual power supplies and 100wpc will bring the police to your door, and allow them to hear the loudest, cleanest sounds possible on the cheap - for about $200 on ebay. It listed for $1199 in the late eighties. A real bargain in SS amplification.

I've considered getting a pair of Citation 22's to run my subs, too. 200wpc (400 mono) might do the trick.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KH,

Well...I won't say that an old H/K twin-powered RECEIVER will run circles around ANY S/S AMP of today...BUT I will say that for the time they were made, they were the best S/S receivers around and they just SOUND RIGHT!! Like many of the S/S "lines" of that era...it seemed that the less powerful amplifier section models tended to have the most reliability, and in many cases, the best sound...but the entire H/K "X30" line was pretty damned good...and it fell over into their quad receivers too!! If there is ONE particular model that I WOULD recommend, it is the 430 with its "paltry" 25 WPC...and if there is one model I WOULD NOT recommend it is the 330 ( which WASN'T twin-powered in its infancy, at least...BUT was H/K's biggest seller!!!)...which just never seemed to "cut-it" when compared to any of the other models in the line...don't ask me why....maybe that is why it went through a number of model changes(330, 330B, 330C, etc.) What is really strange is that some of the H/K "X30" series were assembled in Japan and some were assembled in New York...but all were designed and engineered by the staff in New York...even funnier is that the 430 was assembled in Japan!! H/K was making some really good stuff in the mid-70's...but they also made a few clunkers...such is the way of life!! Smile.gif

But for a measely 35 bucks or so(and I paid less for each of mine), on eBay, plus shipping of around or under 20 bucks...if you end up with a good clean 430 unit...how can you go wrong? You can always get out of it about what you have in it...and once the bidders on eBay wise up...you may well get much more than you paid for it, should you decide to dump it!!

BTW, here are the given specs on the 430 from an annual of the period (1976 Stereo Review buying guide):

"Harman/Kardon 430-stereo tuner-amplifier. Power output 25 watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms with 0.5% harmonic distortion, 20-20k Hz, both channels driven. Frequency response 4-40 k Hz, power bandwidth 10-40k Hz, IM distortion 0.12%, hum and noise -65dB. Am/FM-stereo tuner with 1.9 uV FM sensitivity, S/N ratio 77dB. Selectivity 50 dB, capture ratio 1.7 dB channel separation 39 dB with 0.7% harmonic distortion(stereo). Signal strength meter, defeatable interstation muting, countour(loudness) switch, high and low-frequency filters, tape monitor circuit, \front panel headphone jack. Outputs and switches for two sets of stereo speakers."

It also has an aux input, two tape inputs and outputs(just one monitor, though), and phono input. This unit actually arrived "onboard" in the "X30" series line-up in 1976 model year...one of the latter ones in the series, so that may be why it has a bit better specs than the others in that series have...apparently it had more R&D input into it?...but who knows? As for its ACTUAL performance...it belies its specs by appearing to outperform them (especially when compared to other brands in its same class with equal or "better" quoted specs!!)...but I don't have any testing equipment, so that is hard for me to verify in reality...its list price in 1976 was around 400 bucks though...alot of money for just 25 WPC in those days!!!

Either way...it sounds DAMNED GOOD to my ears!!! Smile.gif

I may just work out a shipping "loaner" deal with you KH...on the one due in around end of next week...after I check it out to see if it is in the condition given for it...I already chunked the box and stuff this one came in...what do ya think? I would love for you to actually hear one of the best(if not THE BEST) S/S receiver of a quarter century ago and see how it holds up to something made today...outta be interesting to get your review of it!! I would hope that your ears(as good as I believe they are!!) might give one of these units the praise they deserve!!...but then again...if it hurts your ears, I will take that in stride, too!! Smile.gif

dndphishen...

While I have no experience with the Citation 22 power amp...I had a love affair with the Dynaco Stereo 400 M/A power amp...it was one helluva S/S unit for its day(also mid-70's)...200 WPC in stereo(into 8 ohms, 20-20,000 Hz at 0.25% THD & 0.1% IM with both channels driven), 400 in mono...helluva heatsink in the rear with a whisper fan on most models and twin power meters up front(if you got the M/A model)...and it sure had a great sound compared to the H/K Citation 12 or 16 units of that same era!!! Don't get me wrong...those Citations I mentioned were good stuff, and highly recommended by the reviewers in that era...but that Dynaco just sounded better to me...and apparently it is still fairly popular...used items in good condition regularly go for around 200-300 bucks (or more) on eBay...a factory assembled model Dynaco Stereo 400 (with meters added, the "M/A" version) listed at $769.00 in 1976(over two month's pay for me at the time)...with the whisper fan option another $30.00...whereas, the Citation 12 (60 WPC)was $340.00 and the Citation 16 (150 WPC)was $795.00...and neither of the Citations had the power of the Stereo 400!! One thing about the dynaco 400 is that it had -100dB s/n ratio...and that is really something in a D.C. S/S power amp for that time!!!...so was its frequency response of 8Hz-50kHz at +0, -1 dB!!! Nowhere near shabby for 1976...or for that matter...TODAY!!!!! It also had the "dynaguard" power limiting circuitry adjustable from(if I remember correctly) 40, 80, 120, 200 WPC, so you don't blow drivers in speakers...nice thing to have....AND that monstrous heat sink had over 1,000 square inches of radiating surface!!!...Plus, it just looks cool as hell, and sounds GREAT!! Smile.gif

If you get a chance, and can audition one in somebody's set-up...go for it!!..You will be pleasantly surprised!!

------------------

I can now receive private messages

This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 07-26-2002 at 10:05 AM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, I would be interested in such an audition. I realize I would have to listen to it in the context of its design and build; in other words, not being unfair and holding it to far more costly designs, although it wouldnt have to be much to beat the average mid-fi sub $1000 AV receiver in parts and build quality. The current crop of audio gear one can buy at retail outlest ala ShortCircuit City etc is frightening. If it DOES achieve something more sonically, that is all the better.

One of the few pieces of gear I have had pass through here that truly BEAT hi-end amplifiers over $1000 (or more depending) is the lowly EICO HF-81, whose name has been beaten to death within the 2 channel, but still surprises me every day. I would love to add this vintage solid state amp to a list of older gear that surprises (there are many vintage tube pieces that fall into this category at various levels of performance).

So again, this sounds like a possibility. Also, my wife is an English teacher and we are working on an elective course entitled "The Impact of Music in Modern American Culture from 1950-present." I am donating a turntable, portable CD player, and some monitor speakers. We are now looking for a small integrated/receiver for less than $75 with a phono stage. Some of these kids have NEVER HEARD an LP!

I might be interested in buying one if the audition goes well or if one pops up for cheap.

kh

This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 07-26-2002 at 11:02 AM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

KH...

what is strange is that most of the kids today have not only never heard an LP, but have never heard any decent speakers either...preferring only a massive subwoofer over truly musical sound, since most of their more popular "music" tends to have lots of bass, but not much of anything else...especially not much MELODY!!!...LOL! Even when a guitar is played it is seldom much more than two or three chords of pure distortion used only for rythym effect...and with all that overpowered distorted bass they go for, it makes me wonder if they can actually HEAR, much less ENJOY real music in its full spectrum or not!! LOL!

There is one guy in CA who has listed a 430 at least three times and it has never been bid up to his reserve yet...God only knows what that is!!!...even though he once got a bid up to around 50 bucks for it!!while there have been a bevy of other listings for this model that have gone for from as little as 23 bucks to as high as 35 bucks, lately...all of these(save for one, and it got around ten bucks) were listed in great working condition, too...with great cosmetics!!

So, whilst there are bidders offering up more than I believe reasonable on many items...these old 430's tend to actually go for EXTREMELY fair prices...but it is always just a matter of time before somebody reads a review about these and the bidders start trying to outdo each other to get one...and funny thing is...it COULD be YOUR REVIEW(if positive) that sends these up drastically in bidding ...LOL!

So....grab one BEFORE you extoll its virtues...if you find it a worthwhile investment...hint, hint!!! Smile.gif

------------------

I can now receive private messages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

HDBRbuilder

"what is strange is that most of the kids today have not only never heard an LP, but have never heard any decent speakers either...preferring only a massive subwoofer over truly musical sound, since most of their more popular "music" tends to have lots of bass, but not much of anything else...especially not much MELODY!!!...LOL! Even when a guitar is played it is seldom much more than two or three chords of pure distortion used only for rythym effect...and with all that overpowered distorted bass they go for, it makes me wonder if they can actually HEAR, much less ENJOY real music in its full spectrum or not!! LOL!"

Boy isn't that the truth even the Rock and Roll made today that I almost like sounds like sh!t. I just don't get it distrortion that only a cheap rescently made POS SS amp can produce LOL !!! I hate to even play the stuff on my Heresy's it send the woofers into a frenzy !!!!

Craig

------------------

Nos.gif

HH Scott 299 Amp

HH Scott LT-110B Tuner

HH Scott P-87 Turn Table

JVC JL-F50 Turn Table

Sony CDP-CA7ES CD Drive

1985 Walnut Heresey I W/Layne Audio Woofers

KSW-15 Subs>c>

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is so much great music made that does not make it to MTV and Top 40 radio... actually, it would fill up a whole record shop!! Most people remain in the dark regarding this music but it's out there, just not in the commercial heavy glitz record stores, Wal-Mart outlets, K-Mart brigade, 400 space parking lot drone corrals.

I have thousands of recordings that I hold in very high regard, all made from the 80s till today.

kh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Kelly,

Its funny you say that about obscure artist today. There's a Old record store(Now CD's mostly) called Wyatt Earps here in town. The same guy's own and run it today as did in the 70's But anyway's they said exactly the same thing that there is tons of great music out there today that we never hear. Just wish I knew how to find it without blowing a fortune on junk music and one hit wonders !! I like mostly 70s rock and roll bruce springsteen, billy joel , Elton john , Eagles to give you a idea. So what is made today that would fit my taste in your Opinion.

Craig

Link to comment
Share on other sites

RE; Kh's pic which states that "apparently...this series all share the same chassis and basic design"...

To some extent, that is true...but the 330 series was much different in appearance from the others and it was NOT twin-powered...also there are differences in each model's tuner section and amplifier section...(although the pre-amp sections are very similar)...one model may have a slightly better spec given here and there, but the 930 model had an FET front-end in its tuner!! All of the series with the exception of the 330 also were part of the EARLY "wide-bandwidth" series...and this DOES make a difference in what one hears!! The quad models(X00+ series) were part of the "ultra-wide-bandwidth" series due to their built-in CD-4 demodulators necessitating this.

It is strange today to note that at a time when most big-selling receivers were extolling 90 WPC or more, and touting all their bells and whistles in a vast menagerie of buttons, dials, levers, and slide controls on the front panel, H/K was surviving quite well from a stereo receiver line that never exceeded a 45 wpc rating and had only the basic minimal array of switches and controls expected to be found up on its front panel!! There was a good reason for this, too...they sounded great and were virtually bulletproof!!

How do you ensure their longetivity? Simple...make sure every switch is off , the bass and treble are at "flat", the volume is all the way down, and turn it on...then turn the volume to about 10%...go get a beer/glass of wine/other beverage...come back, turn the volume back to "0", kick on the speaker switch, kick in the source, turn the volume to where you want it...and enjoy....use reverse procedure when shutting the unit down...kinda like tubes, huh? Smile.gif

------------------

I can now receive private messages

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"...and if there is one model I WOULD NOT recommend it is the 330 ( which WASN'T twin-powered in its infancy, at least...BUT was H/K's biggest seller!!!)..."

"also there are differences in each model's tuner section and amplifier section."

The HK330C and the HK430 are the same with these two exceptions: the tuner circuit board had the parts for FM muting deleted on the 330C, and only one power transformer on the 20W(one dB less) rated 330C. They used the same circuit boards in both models. The A401 used the same amplifier section. The T403 was the same tuner. The HK230 on the other hand was a huge POS. The FM only HK730 was a big improvement with its complementary symmetry amplifier.

The similarly rated Yamaha CR800 was a much nicer piece, the phono preamp section was much quieter.

On Klipschorns, the Tandberg TR2040 completely smoked both of them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

NOS440 said:

"Its funny you say that about obscure artist today. There's a Old record store(Now CD's mostly) called Wyatt Earps here in town. The same guy's own and run it today as did in the 70's But anyway's they said exactly the same thing that there is tons of great music out there today that we never hear. Just wish I knew how to find it without blowing a fortune on junk music and one hit wonders !! I like mostly 70s rock and roll bruce springsteen, billy joel , Elton john , Eagles to give you a idea. So what is made today that would fit my taste in your Opinion."

To quote Alex Trebek, "The answer is"......

The String Cheese IncidentSmile.gif

If you want to hear some good, fresh, out-of-the-box, joyful sounds, go here: SCI Fidelity sounds page

On this page are seven choice live offerings from last year's New Years' Eve run in San Francisco. Also check out the Billy and Liza tracks for some simple acoustic stuff. Certainly an improvement over the top 40 stuff! If it's not for you, it's free of charge! Hope you like it!

"It's very gouda"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Craig, I'll throw you some links here to some good stuff. I have to admit, that I dont listen to The Eagles if I can help it..heh... A lot of this stuff is a bit less accessable and takes a few extra listens to sink in, but it's worth it.

djk, are you saying the Yamaha CR-800 is a step up from the H/K 730 receiver, or this series in general? I am VERY familiar with the Yamaha gear back when it was actually well-made.

I had some Tandberg recording equipment and it was top notch. Never got to hear their amps, however.

kh

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the H/K 230 was nowhere NEAR the rest of the line in dependability or quality...that is likely why it didn't survive very long. The 330 model went through numerous upgrades in its circuitry...and I would imagine the "C" model was much better than the "B" or the original 330...but, then again, the 330 was one of the ORIGINAL offerings...and preceded the other models by a number of years...years in which the other models were able to benefit in their initial R&D from "lessons learned" on the 330. I am not familiar with the "C" model of the 330, but can attest that the 330 and 330B DID have some teething problems and tended to have to be returned for transistor replacements, etc...at least in 73-76...while I was "watching"!! Smile.gif

I "watched" alot in those years....not only did I audition equipment on a VERY regular basis, read up on specs of different models, etc, but I also "watched" and "learned"!! WHY? Simply because I wanted to make purchases within my price parameters of equipment that, not only had good specs, but also performed well...IN ADDITION to their ability to withstand abuse, without needing to be returned for repairs!! When you are a member of a battalion combat team of airborne infantry, all of whom are spending HUGE amounts of money on high-dollar/high-end equipment (because they are gone from their base for a month at a time to different NATO countries for war-games and training and have most of their paychecks to invest in this stuff, since there was nothing but music to "calm" these "savage beasts" when they were "in garrison"---no TV in English, etc...), and you see/hear about "I had to take my XXXX back to the shop for XXXX repairs and it cost me $XXXX"...and you KNOW how that equipment was TREATED(IOW, was it handled with "kid gloves" or "beaten to death"??...AND, if it WAS beaten to death and managed to survive, then it MUST be built pretty damned well!!!)...you tend to learn VERY MUCH about the particular piece of equipment's "reliability factor", and you ALSO tend to learn very much about just how expensive it will BE to OWN a particular piece over time from the projected repair costs incurred!!

Two and a half to three years is a very long time to "watch and wait" before purchasing your equipment in an environment like that...especially when one LOVES music to begin with!!...And had already accumulated well-over 500 record albums, most of which were still un-opened in their shrink wrap!!!!

In early to mid-1975, a "battle for the bucks" began between the USAREUR Audio/Photo agency(which had been making high-end equipment available to the soldiers at nice discounted prices for a number of years through its "Audio Clubs" stores on U.S. military bases in Europe) and the Post Exchange system, which had finally realized how much money it was losing by not selling high-end equipment to the soldiers, and invoked "the clause" to rectify this situation.

"The Clause"...simply stated that the "audio club" stores could NOT sell the same MODEL from a manufacturer that the PX was selling...which meant that once the PX started offering a particular model of equipment, the audio club store had a limited time in which to "sell-off" its supply of this item, before it was stuck with it and could't sell it anymore!!

The PX system started ordering models of equipment that it had clandestinely been watching the audio club stores sell large numbers of...therby forcing the audio clubs to HEAVILY DISCOUNT their inventory of these in order not to end up "stuck" with them!!! Not only that, but the PX entered into a "kill-off the audio clubs" mode in which it would carry a particular piece of equipment for a time, then discontinue it once the audio clubs dropped the ENTIRE LINE from that manufacturer (since it wasn't profitable for them just to carry the low-end models that didn't sell well). Whenever the PX decided to discontinue a model, it was HEAVILY DISCOUNTED, too!!!

I LOVED IT!!!! Almost all the equipment that I had decided to purchase over the previous "watching, reading and studying, and auditioning period" came up HEAVILY DISCOUNTED in either the audio club or the PX over the next 9 months I was in Europe...most of it due to the above given reasons...and I grabbed it up for a song!!! Smile.gif

My "doing without" days were over!!!...SOMETIMES IT PAYS TO DO WITHOUT FOR A TIME!!...IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE!!! Smile.gif

What did I get in this manner?

TEAC A-2340-R reel-to-reel, stateside list: $900, PX list: $555, my cost: $460

H/K 900+ quad receiver, stateside list: $1,000, Audio Club list: $575, my cost: $432

Technics RS-676-AUS cassette deck, stateside list: $460, Audio Club list: $338, my cost: $225

Technics SL-1300 turntable, stateside list: $300, Audio Club list: $180, my cost: $117

DBX II, model 124 quad noise reduction unit, stateside list: $520, Audio Club list: $334, my cost: $180

2 each, Soundcraftsman 20-12A equalizers, stateside list(both): $600, PX list(both): $418, my cost(both): $332

Koss Phase/2+2 Quadraphone headphones(hey, they were fun to play with!!! Smile.gif ), stateside list: $145. Audio Club list: $96, my cost: $45

JVC 4MD-20X 4-channel phono cartridge(CD-4), stateside list: $80, Audio Club list: $55, my cost: $32

SHURE M95-ED cartridge, stateside list: $60, PX list: $31, my cost: $13

The speakers were two JBL 4311WX studio monitors and two JBL Decade L36 (with another pair of these drop-shipped to my father's address in AR...6 speakers total)...package deal...big discount!! Stateside list(total): $1452, audio club list: $1070, my cost: $790

NOT TOO SHABBY for a "buck sergeant" with his "jump pay" added giving him 425 bucks take-home each month in 1976...but I had been saving up for these purchases for quite some time, too!!

------------------

I can now receive private messages

This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 07-27-2002 at 11:41 AM

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...