John Warren Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 So why do I STILL have to pull out my diagnostic scanner tool to read the CEL code on a vehicle that has an on-dash monitor? Why do I have to read the live ECM data on a hand-tool that has nowhere near as good resolution as the on-board monitor? Why can't ECM data be accessible on the dash monitor? Is it really that hard? Is it just me? Is there a secret OEM button sequence that gains access to this data? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Theres probably numerous reasons, but I would think they don't want everybody to be able to diagnosis their own cars. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Some cars can access the codes & much more information by way of dashboard cluster or info screen but most would not know what to do with the code and end up just throwing parts at it anyways. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Some cars can access the codes & much more information by way of dashboard cluster or info screen but most would not know what to do with the code and end up just throwing parts at it anyways. The codes are only a piece of the puzzle. It's the data logging, both memory and in real time, that are useful at getting to root cause. Watching sensor data in real time shows what the engine and emission systems are doing. The ECM processing hardware alone (sensors, harnessing, ECMs, etc) add about $3K to the cost of a vehicle. Not to mention most of these parts are OEM only. I'd like to have access to it since I paid for it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Some cars can access the codes & much more information by way of dashboard cluster or info screen but most would not know what to do with the code and end up just throwing parts at it anyways. The codes are only a piece of the puzzle. It's the data logging, both memory and in real time, that are useful at getting to root cause. Codes are just general information on where the problem may lie, data can often help but most would not know what they were looking at anyways. I spent 2-3 months out of the year in GM training school just to keep up with yearly changes. Think the backyard mechanic could get by with limited or no training ? I think not. Watching sensor data in real time shows what the engine and emission systems are doing. It can help in some situations. The ECM processing hardware alone (sensors, harnessing, ECMs, etc) add about $3K to the cost of a vehicle. Not to mention most of these parts are OEM only. I'd like to have access to it since I paid for it. You pay for the vehicle but manufactures do not want weekend mechanics working on their own vehicles. I don't make the rules but i agree more harm than good can be done by a uneducated tinkerer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Just give me an old 55 Chevy, I'll sort it out. Some of these online owner's forums are good at troubleshooting with or without codes, but yes why not codes. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 The days are gone where you just needed a oscilloscope, vacuum gauge, dwell meter & timing light with basic hand tools to tune up a car. I don't miss installing points or rebuilding carbeurators myself. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I do what I can! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Welcome to the world of a auto tech. I just dropped $3700 hundred bucks on my new scanner, and a tool to do "tpms". I have been working on Honda's since 1986 so my shop does mainly Honda/Acura. I was looking at the OEM Honda scanner but that would of cost me over 4k plus I would need to buy a laptop that was about 2k. If I was to go that route it would only work on the Honda/Acura line of cars. My shop also does other makes but mainly the asian imports. No European cars allowed in my shop. I think the OEM's have come along way since 1997 when OBII came into the scene. Most pro-level scanners will allow to run tests, get into all the modules( ABS, SRS, ect, ect) My new scanner does all this and it will allow me to get on the internet, get onto this forum and write this....oh yea..... :-) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason str Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 OBD II was a huge leap forward for diagnostic capability + having to use different harness connections on OBD 1 systems was a headache. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quiet_Hollow Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Rest assured John, there's a way to hack your car. If not already, there will be soon. Still need a stand-alone computer for it though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 Welcome to the world of a auto tech. I just dropped $3700 hundred bucks on my new scanner, and a tool to do "tpms". I have been working on Honda's since 1986 so my shop does mainly Honda/Acura. I was looking at the OEM Honda scanner but that would of cost me over 4k plus I would need to buy a laptop that was about 2k. If I was to go that route it would only work on the Honda/Acura line of cars. My shop also does other makes but mainly the asian imports. No European cars allowed in my shop. I think the OEM's have come along way since 1997 when OBII came into the scene. Most pro-level scanners will allow to run tests, get into all the modules( ABS, SRS, ect, ect) My new scanner does all this and it will allow me to get on the internet, get onto this forum and write this....oh yea..... :-) $3700 really isn't that much for a tool that you depend on as a professional(?). Do you have emissions checks in MD and if so what are the conditions for a fail? BTW, I'm looking at $23k for an Agilent Spectrum analyzer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 4, 2014 Author Share Posted October 4, 2014 I use the Actron CP9580A. I'd be Naked and Afraid without it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dude Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) All I have is Cat ET, and Genies smart link oh yea and JLG's hand held analyzer.Whats cool with the JLG analyzer, I can hook up a transmitter/receiver to the machine. Which will allow me to sit in a service truck and read trouble codes with my JLG app on my android phone. There's some others out there but the JLG analyzer is the simplest one to use. Edited October 4, 2014 by duder1982 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MORE KLIPSCH PLEASE Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 Welcome to the world of a auto tech. I just dropped $3700 hundred bucks on my new scanner, and a tool to do "tpms". I have been working on Honda's since 1986 so my shop does mainly Honda/Acura. I was looking at the OEM Honda scanner but that would of cost me over 4k plus I would need to buy a laptop that was about 2k. If I was to go that route it would only work on the Honda/Acura line of cars. My shop also does other makes but mainly the asian imports. No European cars allowed in my shop. I think the OEM's have come along way since 1997 when OBII came into the scene. Most pro-level scanners will allow to run tests, get into all the modules( ABS, SRS, ect, ect) My new scanner does all this and it will allow me to get on the internet, get onto this forum and write this....oh yea..... :-) $3700 really isn't that much for a tool that you depend on as a professional(?). Do you have emissions checks in MD and if so what are the conditions for a fail? BTW, I'm looking at $23k for an Agilent Spectrum analyzer. yes we have emissions in MD. Ya go to the emissions station, they connect to the OBD port. If the car has any "pending" codes or has not run all the monitor tests it will not pass. No $3700 bucks is not alot for the scan tool I got. It does a whole lot for the money. If I had went with a Snap-On scanner it would have been close to $10K. I am a one man shop. I have friends that are shop owners and they own many scanners 5+. No one scanner will do all. We all have to spend money to make money. Some might spend $100K+ in school or $100k+ in tools, it does depend on your profession. But for my little world the scanner I got does just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted October 4, 2014 Share Posted October 4, 2014 I'd like to have access to it since I paid for it. I hear you and agree with you. And I wish you well with that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 On occasion, I'll drive my truck with the scanner tool Velcro'ed to the dash. I'll scroll thru the sensor menu and observe how the plots change as the engine is loaded. It's cool and even educational. It's like driving the bat mobile. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 So why do I STILL have to pull out my diagnostic scanner tool to read the CEL code on a vehicle that has an on-dash monitor? Why do I have to read the live ECM data on a hand-tool that has nowhere near as good resolution as the on-board monitor? Why can't ECM data be accessible on the dash monitor? Is it really that hard? Is it just me? Is there a secret OEM button sequence that gains access to this data? That's funny because I was thinking that same exact thing the other day. I do understand that the manufacturers don't want the armchair mechanic having that information for obvious reasons. Not because they don't want to sell those guys parts, but because of liability concerns. Hell, that's why there is a disclaimer when the navigation comes on. What does it say? Something like if you get lost and drive into a bad part of the city and get mugged it's your own damn fault. Press enter to agree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 How to do it...once the warranty expires for a given module (Emission, Engine, ABS...) the system prompts for activation. The user acknowledges the data is provided "for information only" and the diagnostics menus becomes live displaying real-time and stored sensor activity. CEL codes, most likely fixes, PNs, tools required etc. would be displayed. ECM data demonstrating why the fault was thrown (say a bad O2 sensor heater) can be displayed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mustang guy Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Or maybe hire a hacker to hack into the ECU and have that stuff sent to the screen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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