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Cantilope

Building a Belle

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I currently have a set of 1974 Cornwalls with ALK Cornscala-wall networks and a 24” Tuba THT.  That I really love.  I have them set up in my basement which has unfinished walls, and I have used Roxul as insulation in the walls and ceilings.  The Room sounds very good.  I am very much wanting to move to a completely horn loaded speaker.  I have never heard a la scala or a belle or a khorn for that matter, but am pretty convinced I would like the sound based on my experience with my folded horn subwoofer.

 

La Scalas can be had around here for 800-1000 bucks and with those what I am seeing is the desire to replace the stock mid horn (same issue as my CW).  I have been watching for belles for 2 years with nothing showing up.  With my recent DIY success of the THT I am thinking I can build a Belle or a La Scala and improve on it with better horns and drivers as funds improve.  I read a few threads today, the bass bin of the LaScala vs the Belle, the Belle seems to be the winner as far as aesthetics and function.  So I am thinking of building a Belle from scratch instead of buying a lascala and replacing most of it.

 

I am thinking of using a Fastrac midhorn, and using the K55 Drivers, K33 woofers, K77 tweeters and the ALK networks I have in my CW to populate the belle.  Ultimately if I really like the way it turns out, upgrading to the Kappa 15C woofers, B&C tweeters and a possible new 2" midrange if I can do that and allow me to return the CW to its original unmolested state.

  • Will my ALK Cornscala-wall network allow all of these changes? 
  • Should I think about building something else?  I am not really wanting to desecrate my ’74 decorator CW but want to move to a horn loaded bass.
  • Looking at the Belle plans, everything is done in ¾” sheet.  I know that the LaScala II is made out of 1” to reduce flex, is that worth doing to the belle?   Maybe just the outer skin?  I have CAD and could make those adjustments pretty easily.

I am open to any and all criticism and recommendations, Thanks.

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Instead of all that, you might consider resting a K510 on top of your Cornwall (or LaScala) and biamp your new 2-way speaker.  I learned the hard way that a good 2-way sounds better than a good 3-way since you are losing a crossover point.

 

Look up 'JubeScala' and you'll probably find many threads with it mentioned. 

 

If you go the 3-way route, I would suggest that if you can go 2" drivers you will have an improvement in sound (all else being equal)

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Hmm, I might consider a K510 on top of a horn loaded bass bin... that might be a really great idea.  Still need a good bass bin, though...

 

I started laying out the Belle design, pretty sure I can turn it into a parts list.  I have it all but the motorboard in my CAD program, it is really confusing just from looking at the plans.  I might draw up a new top using the K510, that idea is growing on me as I type.  Are the dimensions for that horn available, I'll have a look and see...  15"x9"

Edited by Cantilope

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The Belle Bottom is fairly easy to build. I don't think I would take apart your CW's. all the parts you need are readily available. There are better horn options for your belle bottom. the 510 is likely the best option I know of. as coyotee mentions and will work in a 2 way...I've seen pictures of the belle bottom using a 510 in a two way. I know its around somewhere...

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I have read a bit on the 510, are they readily available?  I think I am sold on the 2-way Belle in black...

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If you build, please keep us updated. I waited for years to find a pair of Belles locally. 

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Nasty phone photo:

 

20141009_160448_zpsbc12a61d.jpg

 

Various top horns will work, these have the elliptrac with the big BMS co-ax.

 

Note: the stock Belle is much easier to build than this bull-nosed version.

Edited by djk
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You'd think I know this next answer since I have one...but, is 15x9 the outside dimension of the 510 or the cutout size? (mine is currently stuffed in a closet)

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Can I ask, someone who is intimately familiar with the Belle design to check my drawing?  I have never seen one in real life, I am trying to reverse engineer it based on photos and some plans that are out there.  I changed the outside of the bass bin to 1" similar to the La Scala II, so the dimensions include that.  I will convert these to fractional inches and create a cutlist if I have not missed anything.

 

Have I assumed correctly that the woofer mates up to the slot on the motorboard?  I am thinking of making the bottom out of 2 pieces of 1/2" laminated so that I can make a perfect access door.  I might add some braces as my THT required them every 8" I might stick to that spec. with no unbraced sections over 8".  Thanks for the help and please comments and suggestions are appreciated.

 

Not having any luck sourcing a K510...

Belle Design.pdf

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Unless  you flat out stumble onto a 510 AND stumble onto it prior to someone else (who knows what it is), your best bet is likely to be simply buying one from Klipsch.  You might contact "WC" at Panacea Engineering however, I've heard he's been difficult to reach.  (I myself tried several times and was never able to reach him)  That said, he's a klipsch dealer and trying to build his business.

 

If you get one through the traditional channels, they will come with a driver attached.  Evidently, WC has the ability to sell them without a driver if someone doesn't want to go stock.  The K69 driver is a fine driver.  It's not the best but then, it's very cost effective (Some have replaced it with a TAD driver costing $1,000 or more just for the driver)

 

Here's WC's website:  http://panaceaengineering.com/

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Good thread, can't wait to see what comes of it.  Let me know if your able to get the horn by itself.

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Cantalope,

I highly recommend you swing by E3 Modern gallery in downtown SLC, this is the home of Electronluv and he has an amazing 5 way horn setup, fed by a custom TT and his Elecronluv 300B amps. Very, very impressive. I beleive he also has some sort of LaScala based project setup at the moment. Josh is the name of the proprieter and he is a very knowledgeable and friendly guy. He has a lot of vinyl on hand and will happily demonstrate the system for you.

 

Also, The White Owl, in Logan, has some LaScalas and Heresies in the main area of the bar, normally just playing background though.

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Cantalope,

I highly recommend you swing by E3 Modern gallery in downtown SLC, this is the home of Electronluv and he has an amazing 5 way horn setup, fed by a custom TT and his Elecronluv 300B amps. Very, very impressive. I beleive he also has some sort of LaScala based project setup at the moment. Josh is the name of the proprieter and he is a very knowledgeable and friendly guy. He has a lot of vinyl on hand and will happily demonstrate the system for you.

 

Also, The White Owl, in Logan, has some LaScalas and Heresies in the main area of the bar, normally just playing background though.

WOW, I had no idea this existed...  I will go have a look and only 2.1 miles from my office.

Edited by Cantilope

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Here is the updated CAD drawings including one with a K510.  I made the top 10" tall instead of 8 3/8" like the original to accommodate the 15x9 horn (does this include the flange?).  I also made it a bit wider to match the 1/2" additional width caused by using the 1" on the bin.  Again comments, suggestions please...  easier to change in CAD.  Also all dims are now in fractional inches.

 

I'll create a cut list next.

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Here is the updated CAD drawings including one with a K510. I made the top 10" tall instead of 8 3/8" like the original to accommodate the 15x9 horn (does this include the flange?). I also made it a bit wider to match the 1/2" additional width caused by using the 1" on the bin. Again comments, suggestions please... easier to change in CAD. Also all dims are now in fractional inches.

I'll create a cut list next.

Again thanks for sharing.

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member John Toon has built a few of the Belles, here is the thread   https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/146158-belle-build-finished/?hl=%2Btoon+%2Bbelle#entry1661288   .   In the thread is a link ( http://hornloudspeakermagazine.blogspot.com/2008/11/comprehensive-list-of-klipsch-plans.html ) to plans of  various Heritage designs including the Belle.  Looks like he may have a cut list handy as well for comparison.  

Edited by Zim.

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You'd think I know this next answer since I have one...but, is 15x9 the outside dimension of the 510 or the cutout size? (mine is currently stuffed in a closet)

Its the whole thing measured side to side. 

Edited by Pro-Cinema_Head

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Unless  you flat out stumble onto a 510 AND stumble onto it prior to someone else (who knows what it is), your best bet is likely to be simply buying one from Klipsch.  You might contact "WC" at Panacea Engineering however, I've heard he's been difficult to reach.  (I myself tried several times and was never able to reach him)  That said, he's a klipsch dealer and trying to build his business.

 

If you get one through the traditional channels, they will come with a driver attached.  Evidently, WC has the ability to sell them without a driver if someone doesn't want to go stock.  The K69 driver is a fine driver.  It's not the best but then, it's very cost effective (Some have replaced it with a TAD driver costing $1,000 or more just for the driver)

 

Here's WC's website:  http://panaceaengineering.com/

The 510 comes with a b&e driver I think. 

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I see that the new La Scala II has a bass bin made of MDF.  Is it just the 1" skin that is MDF?  Should I use MDF or plywood for this project?  MY Tuba HT is BB in ply.

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