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Best woofer for Belle


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I also have a pair of 15C's installed in one of my pairs of Cornwalls, and they are outstanding.  Another pair in boxes waiting to go into my Belles.  Claude knows of what he speaks....or something like that....He's a little slow designing my new crossovers for the "Super Cornwalls"......but I forgive him..... :emotion-19:

Classy nudge if I ever heard one. LOL. Soon............

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I also have a pair of 15C's installed in one of my pairs of Cornwalls, and they are outstanding.  Another pair in boxes waiting to go into my Belles.  Claude knows of what he speaks....or something like that....He's a little slow designing my new crossovers for the "Super Cornwalls"......but I forgive him..... :emotion-19:

Classy nudge if I ever heard one. LOL. Soon............

 

I know you're busy, it's totally cool.  Not that I have any room to fit them in anyway...something, multiple somethings, have to go...it's just a matter of deciding what.

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Not a smart strategy to balance drivers.

 

If it's not smart, why did Klipsch do it on all their horn bass units? Khorn, LS, Belle, MWM, then they pad down the treble sections with autoformers. Now you want to argue with Klipsch heritage decisions from decades ago? I don't get the nature of you comment. You know better.

 

I don't want to ruin the thread, but PWK was forced to do what he did.  It is not a good strategy given updated designs.  Amps do not like impedance swings and perform better with constant impedance...........this is why I use ALK passive designs that ensure the woofer, midrange, and tweeter circuits draw exactly the same amplifier power on each branch of the network, by reflecting the same impedance back to the amplifier.  The levels of the drivers are then set independently with transformers and resistors........purposefully to adjust level without affecting the amplifer.  tghis is what tube amps like best.  You know this Claude.  :)

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so it's kappa c's... and there is nothing better out there?

I don't think anyone said there's nothing better.  I'm sure there is if you take the time to do your own research.  Pretty sure it was only stated that they performed well, and are reasonably priced.  The Kappa C's were recommended to me by Justin Weber, I auditioned them in several pairs in my collection,  and decided they fit my requirements.

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Not a smart strategy to balance drivers.

 

If it's not smart, why did Klipsch do it on all their horn bass units? Khorn, LS, Belle, MWM, then they pad down the treble sections with autoformers. Now you want to argue with Klipsch heritage decisions from decades ago? I don't get the nature of you comment. You know better.

 

I don't want to ruin the thread, but PWK was forced to do what he did.  It is not a good strategy given updated designs.  Amps do not like impedance swings and perform better with constant impedance...........this is why I use ALK passive designs that ensure the woofer, midrange, and tweeter circuits draw exactly the same amplifier power on each branch of the network, by reflecting the same impedance back to the amplifier.  The levels of the drivers are then set independently with transformers and resistors........purposefully to adjust level without affecting the amplifer.  tghis is what tube amps like best.  You know this Claude.  :)

 

Yes, I know this. It's also the main reason I gave up tube amps in the last millenium. Good solid state amps handle impedance swings with way fewer issues than tubes. I'm not arguing your choice, constant impedance is better. PWK once proved that a Heresy caused less amplifier distortion than an 8 ohm resistor because the impedance swing was UP.

 

A 4 ohm woofer works just fine in horns and the loading raises the nominal impedance electrical to about 5.6 ohms by way of the acoustic impedance, so it's going the right way. It's big impedance dips that kill amplifiers.

 

The Eminence 15C is a very good woofer for Klipsch products and it represents a real bargain. What more does anyone want? Especially those who are not interested in buying them or have never owned/measured them to begin with.

Edited by ClaudeJ1
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Not a smart strategy to balance drivers.

 

If it's not smart, why did Klipsch do it on all their horn bass units? Khorn, LS, Belle, MWM, then they pad down the treble sections with autoformers. Now you want to argue with Klipsch heritage decisions from decades ago? I don't get the nature of you comment. You know better.

 

I don't want to ruin the thread, but PWK was forced to do what he did.  It is not a good strategy given updated designs.  Amps do not like impedance swings and perform better with constant impedance...........this is why I use ALK passive designs that ensure the woofer, midrange, and tweeter circuits draw exactly the same amplifier power on each branch of the network, by reflecting the same impedance back to the amplifier.  The levels of the drivers are then set independently with transformers and resistors........purposefully to adjust level without affecting the amplifer.  tghis is what tube amps like best.  You know this Claude.  :)

 

Yes, I know this. It's also the main reason I gave up tube amps in the last millenium. Good solid state amps handle impedance swings with way fewer issues than tubes. I'm not arguing your choice, constant impedance is better. PWK once proved that a Heresy caused less amplifier distortion than an 8 ohm resistor because the impedance swing was UP.

 

A 4 ohm woofer works just fine in horns and the loading raises the nominal impedance electrical to about 5.6 ohms by way of the acoustic impedance, so it's going the right way. It's big impedance dips that kill amplifiers.

 

The Eminence 15C is a very good woofer for Klipsch products and it represents a real bargain. What more does anyone want? Especially those who are not interested in buying them or have never owned/measured them to begin with.

 

 

I'm not arguing about the woofer choice in this thread.  I'm just saying that purposely choosing a 4 ohm woofer so it will draw more current and prevent the upper horns from "run away" is not a very good strategy.  If you have enough power it may not matter much........depending.

 

It's convenient to provide PWK scenarios form the 60s.....which were nothing more than "spin" since he was stuck with his impedance issues......but you know as well as I do that's not the best way to design filters.  And it does affect the low watt amps everyone around here likes to use.

 

How do "chip" amps fare with the varying impedance............as opposed to a constant impedance network?  I really don't know.

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How do "chip" amps fare with the varying impedance............as opposed to a constant impedance network?  I really don't know.

 

They are pretty rugged little buggers and prefer 4 ohms since they run off a 12V. supply. All mine are Tripath 2020 or 2024 with never an issue driving a 4 ohm woofer section or 8 ohms in case of an EVM 15L, which is 1-2 DB more efficient than a K-33.

Edited by ClaudeJ1
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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Guys

I own a pair of Belle too. Firstly, mind to share on how to gain access to the Belle's woofer? I did turn my speaker upside down and unscrewed all the screws on the black piece of wooden plank, but  still couldnt get that wooden plank off.

Secondly, Can I use tube amp's to drive the Belle, if I change the woofer to Kappa-15C?  Or I must use solid state amp if I change the woofer to Kappa-15c?

Thanks

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I'm just saying that purposely choosing a 4 ohm woofer so it will draw more current and prevent the upper horns from "run away" is not a very good strategy.

 

It's a good strategy anytime the sensitivity of the high frequency section is greater than the sensitivity of the bass. This is almost always the case when using compression drivers on HF horns, and is exacerbated whenever direct radiator bass designs are used. It is typically found in sound reinforcement speakers that use passive crossovers with direct radiator bass sections, either by using a 4 ohm woofer or two 8 ohm woofers wired in parallel, such as JBL SRX 725s and EV QRX 212s.  

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Hi Guys I own a pair of Belle too. Firstly, mind to share on how to gain access to the Belle's woofer? I did turn my speaker upside down and unscrewed all the screws on the black piece of wooden plank, but still couldnt get that wooden plank off.

You're doing it right. There is a gasket sealing the cover to the bin so just pry it off gently. Also 2 of the screws are longer than the rest so take note when you remove them.

 

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I'm just saying that purposely choosing a 4 ohm woofer so it will draw more current and prevent the upper horns from "run away" is not a very good strategy.

 

It's a good strategy anytime the sensitivity of the high frequency section is greater than the sensitivity of the bass. This is almost always the case when using compression drivers on HF horns, and is exacerbated whenever direct radiator bass designs are used. It is typically found in sound reinforcement speakers that use passive crossovers with direct radiator bass sections, either by using a 4 ohm woofer or two 8 ohm woofers wired in parallel, such as JBL SRX 725s and EV QRX 212s.  

 

It's a strategy Klipsch has been succesfully using for decades, including their MWM bins. Methinks there too much Klappen going on.

Edited by ClaudeJ1
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