Best woofer for Belle

[BBZink]

I'm on day two with the Kappas in my Belles. They are deep and smooth. Sound great.

how did you open them, top or bottom?

[longdrive03]

I've got some Eminence woofers that are 8 ohm (4.9 ohm Re) with specs very close to the K-33.  If I use them in my Belle build will there be a -3db decrease in bass output?  Any other concerns using 8 ohm?  I know I will have to alter the crossover values.  Thanks

[mustang guy]

longdrive. It may not be a huge difference in DCR, but the impedance may be very different as it is measured ACR and at varying frequencies. 

 

Which Eminence driver have you got? I can put the specs into WinISD and let you know.

[longdrive03]

MG,

 

A friend has them and I tested them  a while back and the only number on the was 11-15-046.  Here the specs I got using WT2.  Thanks.

 

 

Buffer[1] Vas                                                       Ver 7.01     

Completed: Sun Nov 09 21:57:31 2014

Drive level 69.504% [2.465 mA]

Sine,LoZP(LV/LA)->Vas,21 pts

;------------------------------------------------------------------

Re         =      4.9895 ohms

Fs         =     30.0773 Hz

Zmax       =    114.3375 ohms

Qes        =      0.3160

Qms        =      6.9247

Qts        =      0.3022

Le         =      3.6119 mH  (at 1 kHz)

Diam       =    336.5500 mm  ( 13.2500 in  )

Sd         =  88958.8296 mm^2(137.8865 in^2)

Vas        =    289.3886 L   ( 10.2197 ft^3)

BL         =     18.0167 N/A

Mms        =    108.7740 g

Cms        =    257.4179 uM/N

Kms        =   3884.7336 N/M

Rms        =      2.9685 R mechanical

Efficiency =      2.3415 % 

Sensitivity=     95.7130 dB @1W/1m

Sensitivity=     97.7634 dB @2.83Vrms/1m

Krm        =   8.289E-03 ohms     Freq dependent resistance

Erm        = 808.551E-03          Rem=Krm*(2*pi*f)^Erm

Kxm        =  63.176E-03 Henries  Freq dependent reactance 

Exm        = 677.122E-03          Xem=Kxm*(2*pi*f)^Exm

;------------------------------------------------------------------

Ftest                   =    21.975 Hz

Ftest/Fms               =    0.7306

Test Mass used          =   95.0000 g (Equal to 19.0 nickels)

Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.90) =    25.515 g (Add -69.485g for Ft=27.070)

Test Mass (Ft=Fms*0.75) =    84.602 g (Add -10.398g for Ft=22.558)

[mustang guy]

On my cell phone. Here are the t/s specs for the round magnet K-33. Perhaps you can compare these to your results. At first blush it looks like your driver would be OK. You need to consider how the crossover point will be influenced by the greater impedance.

https://imgur.com/pOwb57S

 

here are the K-33 square magnet specs https://imgur.com/jNN8AER

 

hete are the K-43 specs (found in pro LS) https://imgur.com/ZE5vPuy

[longdrive03]

Thanks MG.  I've got the round magnet versions and will test one today and post what I get.  The .63QT on the square magnet is different than the round version as I recall.  THanks.

[longdrive03]

I ran the K-33 through the WT2 and got the attached results.  Looks like impedance at 400 hz is 5-6 ohms.  

K-33 15192 Klipsch 15 inch woofer

K-33 15192 Klipsch 15 inch woofer IMPEDANCE GRAPH

[longdrive03]

Not sure if above attachment will open.  Try this one

[Zoef]

Faital Pro 15pr400.

[Arash]

Faital Pro 15PR400 and 15FH520. both are light weight woofers. BD15 from Beyma is also a very nice 15 incher

[mustang guy]

On 9/11/2016 at 3:45 PM, longdrive03 said:

I ran the K-33 through the WT2 and got the attached results.  Looks like impedance at 400 hz is 5-6 ohms.  

K-33 15192 Klipsch 15 inch woofer

K-33 15192 Klipsch 15 inch woofer IMPEDANCE GRAPH

Without an extension, it's hard to open a file. I figure the file is a woofer tester file. The top part has text, but doesn't match the specs in the photo you uploaded. Based on the picture, here is a comparison of your Eminence and the two different K-33's and K-43.

 

 

Hope this helps!

[longdrive03]

MG, help out a fellow that isn't as talented, educated, and smart as you!!!   What do the graphs tell you?   What order would your rate the four woofers?  Thanks.

 

 

[longdrive03]

MG, forgot to say thanks!!!!!

Thanks for all your effort.  Okay everyone which one would you choose based on the graphs????

[mustang guy]

No self effacing allowed here.  Compliments generously accepted even though not deserved. I am an utter amateur at this. What I know is because I have either learned it here or been inspired to go out and learn it from here. The true Sifu's are lurking and hopefully will be kind when they critique my response. 

 

First, your woofer is measuring 3.385Ω not 4.9. There will be little or no effect on the crossover as compared to the designated driver.

 

Second, the woofer you have seems very comparable in a 2cuft enclosure.

 

• 1st graph: Although it is -2db from the round magnet K-33, it is still better than the square magnet version. 
• 2nd graph: based on the resonance of the 2cuft enclosure, the woofer acts about the same as and the pro K-43 woofer. Still in the middle of all the compared woofers approved for the LaScala. I don't know what the actual internal volume of the Bell Klipsch is, but the La Scala is 2.04 cu ft.
• 3rd graph: tells me the driver is more LF capable that all but the square magnet K-33. It is still in the middle of the 4 drivers compared.
• 4th graph: The timing of the woofer will be as good as the other drivers. The delays are the same.

In my opinion, that woofer would work very well in a La Scala. If the Belle Klipsch has an enclosure with the same volume, it should work in it just as well.

 

[JohnA]

On 11/7/2014 at 10:23 AM, ClaudeJ1 said:

Everything is a compromise in engineering. I'ts 4 ohm impedance is desirable for Klipsch mid/treble horn sections because the woofer section needs to draw more power from the amp to keep up with the horns on all Klipsch products.

 

 

That's not exactly untrue, but a little skewed.  A 4 ohm woofer places the woofer's impedance closer to the 8 ohm industry standard. 

 

The bass horn loads the cone so that the woofer's impedance is 6+ ohms in a La Scala and Belle (and something similar in the K-horn), pretty close to the nominal 8 ohms of any speaker.  Horn loading raises the efficiency to the 104 dB level.  And, the autoformer increases the impedance of the 107 dB squawker to attenuate its output to line up with the woofer.  The K-77s of the last 40 or more years have an impedance of 7.5-ish ohms and an output of 105 dB, pretty well in line with the other drivers. 

 

Pedantic?  Well,  ........  yeah. 

[longdrive03]

Does anyone know if the hole spacing on the Kappa 15c is the same as the K--33.  I know that Bob Crites steel 1526 is the same spacing.  Just wondering if the 15C is the same since I've got the screw inserts in place in the motor board.  

 

Claude do you know?   Thanks.  

[Marvel]

I believe they are the same since they are all made by Eminence.

 

Bruce

[jason str]

Same bolt pattern.

[longdrive03]

Does anyone know if the hole spacing on the Kappa 15c is the same as the K--33.  I know that Bob Crites steel 1526 is the same spacing.  Just wondering if the 15C is the same since I've got the screw inserts in place in the motor board.  

 

Claude do you know?   Thanks.  

[longdrive03]

Thanks guys,  I also just got confirmation from Eminence they are the same mounting pattern.  May try them out!