In ceiling Klipsch IC-650-T (11 pds) safest install?

[rboster]

First let me say thanks for any and all feedback.  I am not particularly handy, but can run speaker wires etc.  Sawing a hole into my ceiling is another story.  So here's my situation:

 

I just purchased a pair of the Klipsch IC-650-T in ceiling speakers for my Front height atmos layout.  

 

http://www.klipsch.com/ic-650-t

 

I didn't realize how big they would be until I unboxed them.  Not only are they large, but weight 11 pounds.  They will be installed in a dedicated room (converted garage), with attic space above the ceiling.  

 

So I went into the attic last night with general idea of placement.  I did find my fudge factor is small ...couple inches between joists and at one end of the speaker will butt up against a board in the ceiling.  This brings up issue #1:  Cutting from below into the ceiling.  My fear is there isn't a lot of inches on either side, so I need to be pretty spot on.  

 

So here is my solution:  I can measure from the air duct in the room to the place I want to install the speaker.  I would drill a hole into the ceiling with a small drill bit or a nail and that becomes my "mid point for the speaker.  I go into the attic above and locate the hole.  As long as I am with 5 inches or so (since the whole will be just under 10 inches) the hole will be within the area of the large in ceiling cut out.  Once I am in the attic, I can see if the overall placement will work using the drill hole as my initial locator and the cut out as my template on the floor of the attic between the joists.  I would then use the metal reinforcement ring with the two rails laying it down over the template to confirm.  I would then be able to cut the hole from above in the attic.  Does anyone see an issue doing it this way? Does cutting a hole from above cause any problems with the install?

 

If not, moving on to my second issue:  The weight of the speaker.  Klipsch provides a metal ring that is secured on two metal rails that sits on each side of the ring.  The ring/rail unit sits in the attic and the speaker goes into the ceiling sitting inside the metal ring.  When you lower the dog legs...they would sit on top of the metal ring (between the dog legs and the drywall in the ceiling.  See on page two and three in the manual: 

 

http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/247-2004-2005--klipsch-ic-650-t-manual.pdf

 

I am nervous about this being enough to hold the speaker in place and weight causing it for eventually fall from the ceiling.  Am I being an HT chicken little (the speakers are falling, the speakers are falling)? Or, did they design it appropriately for 99% of the normal installations like mine?

 

Sorry for the long post.  Thanks ahead for any feedback or insight

 

Ron

Edited November 20, 2014 by rboster

[billybob]

What type of ceiling is it? What is it made of? Panels or sheetrock,plywood?

Sounds like you are moving carefully and rightly so as you will just have one try.

Do one speaker first to deal with unforseen problems, if any.

[rboster]

Thanks for the input. It's a standard Drywall ceiling.

[billybob]

I think you are thinking about it correctly. The drywal should be able to handle the weight with the rails in place to distribute the weight more uniformly. To the touch, you may be able to discern the strength on the drywall. The closeness of the situation almost requires cutting from the attic down, very carefully as not to disturb the surrounding area of the interior ceiling, so as not to breakaway material that the spewaker cover cannot conceal. It may be cutting the close areas from top then going down to finish, or more closely control the cut.

What will you be cutting with?

 

BTW, welcome to the forum! It is early yet but others here may well chime in with their take and tips...

Edited November 20, 2014 by billybob

[rboster]

I think you are thinking about it correctly. The drywal should be able to handle the weight with the rails in place to distribute the weight more uniformly. To the touch, you may be able to discern the strength on the drywall. The closeness of the situation almost requires cutting from the attic down, very carefully as not to disturb the surrounding area of the interior ceiling, so as not to breakaway material that the spewaker cover cannot conceal.

What will you be cutting with?

 

BTW, welcome to the forum! It is early yet but others here may well chime in with their take and tips...

 

Thanks for the additional thoughts and "welcome".  New to the Klipsch product, but long time HT hobbyist and former moderator over at AVS forum.  

 

I'll be cutting with a standard dry wall /jab saw (6")  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00005QVQH/ref=pe_385040_121528360_TE_dp_1.   I thought about  using a box cutter to core the circle before using the saw...to help make it easier to cut and lessen the errors.

[billybob]

That may well be the good idea there, prescoring drywall is not a new thing as you know.

Good idea IMLO Sounds like the right tools. Just proceed slow and with caution. I have know

of placing light wide masking tape over the interior drywall cut to help eliminate errors but, you sound experienced.

Slow and steady as she goes should get it. Please stay with us to see how it all works out. Yes prescoring!

 

Well big old welcome here!

[billybob]

That may well be the good idea there, prescoring drywall is not a new thing as you know.

Good idea IMLO Sounds like the right tools. Just proceed slow and with caution. I have know

of placing light wide masking tape over the interior drywall cut to help eliminate errors but, you sound experienced.

Slow and steady as she goes should get it. Please stay with us to see how it all works out. Yes prescoring!

 

Well big old welcome here!

Always good to have another person in the house not only to view your work in room but, attics can be tricky and can be headbangers depending. Almost stuck my foot through drywall ceiling one time, or two.

Careful! You do not sound like a rookie though.

[rboster]

Oh, I am a rookie (just ask my wife)...just spent two hours in the middle of night running idea's through my head.  

 

 I had another idea.  If you look at the rails that the metal ring attaches to...they have slots running up and down one side.  I was thinking of take four strands of picture wire securing each corner of the rail with the wire, then securing the other end of the wire to a nail driven into the top of joists.  This should help as a back up if the speaker weights down the metal ring. I think this would resolve my second concern, being the weight of the speaker over time.

 

Thanks again for your suggestions and confirmation of my plans.  Much appreciated.

 

Ron 

[billybob]

Your welcome! Sounds like a good plan all the way around. The wire backup cannot hurt. Please let us know how you make out, as other's will learn.

[rboster]

Thanks for the input...much appreciated.  I did as described this weekend.  I even taped a black garbage bag underneath the coverage area of the hole (best guess).  Kept ALL the dry wall dust etc in the bag, nothing invaded the room.

 

Here's the highlights and 1 item I would do differently:

 

1) Took the metal ring and rails to the attic to see how it would work in between the speaker and dry wall. This was key in letting me know I didn't have much wiggle room.

 

2) The pilot hole was a great way to know I was in the proper placement for cutting from above.  After cutting the first speaker hole, I used that to guide me for proper placement of the second one.

 

3) Usuing a box cutter to provide a "track" and guide around the circle made the actual cutting much easier.

 

4) As stated the bag underneath the work was key to keeping all drywall dust etc contained...made clean up a breeze.

 

5) the Metal ring and brackets were all I needed to properly secure the 11 pd speaker in place.  Once I mount it, I have no worries about it falling out. The wire reinforced rails were not necessary.

 

6) I cut the holes a little smaller than the template.  Sage advice from others....you can always cut it larger...can't make it smaller.  Plus, the snug fit helped to provide additional help in securing it in the wall...it's not going any where.

 

 

ONE THING I WOULD DO Differently:

 

Once you get 3/4 of the whole cut, the circle would fall into the bag underneath and take the outside (paper layer) with it...tearing off some of the paint.  First speaker cut...not a problem, the ring outside the speaker covered it.  The second hole took off more....so I'll have a inch or so to touch up paint.

 

What would I do the prevent this.  Run a string or wire through the pilot hole and tie a knot in the end.  Hold onto the string before cutting the final section of the circle.  You would hold up the string giving the cut out support so it doesn't fall through until you've cut all the way around.  When done drop it into the bag below.

 

Hope this may help someone installing in ceiling speakers for the first time.

 

Ron

[Paducah Home Theater]

I've seen drywall sag significantly due to humidity so that makes me nervous too, but at least some models have prefabricated metal boxes you can use, which are ideally installed with new construction, but they could probably be modified to fit in between two joists/trusses.