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Anyone else using Multi-channel stereo instead of stereo?


etc6849

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Any settings that may disable my subwoofer? In channel level adjustment it's not displayed either so I know it's not mechanical but rather a setting in the machine.

 

From the Marantz SR6005 manual, pg. 83:

 

"Only when 'Subwoofer Mode' is set to “LFE+Main” (vpage 62), sound is output from the subwoofer...while in "Pure Direct" or "Direct" modes.

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I know this is about a year late, but, IMO, here is a rank order, with the best on top, i.e. best to worst 

 

For two channel:

                             

                               Multi channel stereo (usually)

 

                               Stereo (sometimes)

 

                               All other configurations (blur the sound a little, and reduce "air")

 

For multi channel SACDs:

 

                               Multi Channel In (e.g., 5.0 with bass management also using the sub, or 5.1, with "natural" use of the sub). 

                               Always the best, some SACDs use surround better than others.

                              

                               All other configurations

 

I used to have DynaQuad in the '70s.  It was great!  Sometimes, though, out of phase bass noise came in through the rear (when playing vinyl). It  sounded like wood windows rattling.  This was in the middle of a crime wave in our neighborhood, so when hearing that I wondered if someone was trying to break in.




			
		
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I used to have DynaQuad in the '70s. It was great! Sometimes, though, out of phase bass noise came in through the rear (when playing vinyl). It sounded like wood windows rattling. This was in the middle of a crime wave in our neighborhood, so when hearing that I wondered if someone was trying to break in.

 

Never experienced that in using DynaQuad since 1976.  Not questioning your experience at all, but it's hard to see why that would happen.  It could be that I was always using much smaller rears...Frazier Super Monte Carlos for the most. 

 

Certainly I'd have placed it at the top for 2 channel.  Not only no blurring but increased perception of a deeper, wider stage with better directionality.  Certainly have never felt the need to switch it out on any recording.  I've never had an electronic processor that was suitable for leaving on all the time for 2 channel.  Always sounds, well, processed.  For me, that is the key to DynaQuad...it isn't a processor at all.  Straight wire with a fork in it as far as any impact on the sound quality. 

 

Dave

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I used to have DynaQuad in the '70s. It was great! Sometimes, though, out of phase bass noise came in through the rear (when playing vinyl). It sounded like wood windows rattling. This was in the middle of a crime wave in our neighborhood, so when hearing that I wondered if someone was trying to break in.

 

Never experienced that in using DynaQuad since 1976.  Not questioning your experience at all, but it's hard to see why that would happen.  It could be that I was always using much smaller rears...Frazier Super Monte Carlos for the most. 

 

Certainly I'd have placed it at the top for 2 channel.  Not only no blurring but increased perception of a deeper, wider stage with better directionality.  Certainly have never felt the need to switch it out on any recording.  I've never had an electronic processor that was suitable for leaving on all the time for 2 channel.  Always sounds, well, processed.  For me, that is the key to DynaQuad...it isn't a processor at all.  Straight wire with a fork in it as far as any impact on the sound quality. 

 

Dave

 

 

Maybe nearly subsonic sounds were being induced into the signal path by slightly warped records.  A popular item in those days was a device that filtered out such signals (ACE filter?).  I never bought one.  My front speakers were horn-loaded (in JBL rear loaded C34 enclosures),  They had great bass down to only about 60 Hz, then nothing.  So I wouldn't have heard the sounds in question from the front.  In the rear I had a variety of speakers that went down farther.  

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Pretty funny how I've gone 180 since starting this thread!

 

No kidding.  After doing acoustical work on my room (and way too much time and study) and removing my side speakers (figured this out recently they were impacting my stereo image as my room is too narrow), I will never play stereo in multi-channel again.

 

I have a stereo image that completely wraps around me.  I am literally there, and can hear height, depth and panning perfectly with just two speakers.  Anyone would be floored by what I'm hearing.

 

My system is very different from when I started this thread, but I attribute 60% of the improvement to my now acoustically dead room (20 or more panels in a small room).  It took a lot of acoustic panels to get where I'm at, Dirac, and only having a single seat in the center of my room, calibrating for just one seat while 3 seats are in back now, etc...

 

I will agree that for everyone to enjoy stereo, multi-channel stereo is the best way to go. 

 

But if you want a setup that sounds like a $1 million dollar system (for much much less), you need lots of room treatments, room eq'd to only one center seat, mains crossed to some nice dual subs (crossed to 80Hz or even higher) basically all the stuff some folks say not to do.  Any of you should look me up if you are ever in SC.  I promise you hearing is believing.  I have never heard imaging like what I'm getting on my setup now days.  It is truly unbelievable.

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  • 3 years later...

Reviving this topic. I just discovered multichannel stereo for myself. Works a charm in a small bedroom. Everything is very enjoyable to listen to, and simultaneously produces a very wide sound stage with a super solid center phantom image. It really sounds at time as if there are four distinct channels playing.  I use the 30 degree / 60 degree arrangement, trying to be careful that everything is symmetrical , especially that the two left speakers are precisely as possible the same distance from the left ear, and two rights to the right ear, to avoid cancellation errors.  The side speakers should be letting more of the highest frequency stuff reach the eardrum than the fronts so it doesn't have to be head-clamp perfect to keep from killing the highs. One thing that's always concerned me about just using two speakers is the head related transfer function coloring everything except sounds that are panned to sound like they're coming directly from one of the speakers. I figured having coincident sounds reaching the ear from different angles at the same time should average things out and eliminate unwanted localization of the speaker. It makes me wonder if it would be even better to get four more speakers, making an array of four speakers on each side. Hmm, where would they fit? How would I power them? How hard will it be to get them all arranged in two perfect arcs?  I'll wait on that.

 

etc6849, you say you've stepped away from all this, back to two channel now that you have a comprehensive and effective room treatment system at work. Can you elaborate on what you've done in terms of room treatments? I've just started working for ASC here in Eugene Oregon so I'm really interested in the excellent results you achieved. If I was in SC I'd definitely want to have a listen!

 

 

 

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Thanks!

I stumbled across your patents a while ago as I was pondering the possibilities of upsampling stereo. Seems like a great idea. 

It's interesting that just using four speakers without any processing still works pretty darn good! Very clean and pure. The only problem is a pretty tight sweet spot if you're near field. Far field seems to work at least as well as 2 channel stereo.  With a real up-mix it seems to me the sweet spot would be less important. 

 

 

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Since I posted here a couple of years ago, I've discovered "PL II."  A friend recommended it for turning 2 channel into 5.1.  My initial reaction was, "No, not more processing!"   But it turns out that it is pretty good with some recordings, better than "Multichannel Stereo."  Of course, if a recording is made in SACD 4, 5, or 5.1 channels, most AVRs and AVPs will go directly to "Multi channel In," which is even better.

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13 hours ago, timbley2 said:

I stumbled across your patents a while ago as I was pondering the possibilities of upsampling stereo. Seems like a great idea.

 

The system is capable of much more than is implemented in FOURFRONT. An LCR (left/center/right) classic Klipsch configuration would also be possible. But I cannot go into any more detail without it becoming a commercial plug.

 

 

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19 hours ago, garyrc said:

Since I posted here a couple of years ago, I've discovered "PL II."  A friend recommended it for turning 2 channel into 5.1.  My initial reaction was, "No, not more processing!"   But it turns out that it is pretty good with some recordings, better than "Multichannel Stereo."  Of course, if a recording is made in SACD 4, 5, or 5.1 channels, most AVRs and AVPs will go directly to "Multi channel In," which is even better.

 

I'll have to play with PL II some more. In the past I thought it sounded  pretty good but preferred 2 channel stereo not upmixed. Agreed that a real multi channel mix sounds best, although a good stereo recording in multichannel stereo is surprisingly close.

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8 hours ago, Edgar said:

 

The system is capable of much more than is implemented in FOURFRONT. An LCR (left/center/right) classic Klipsch configuration would also be possible. But I cannot go into any more detail without it becoming a commercial plug.

 

 

 Is anybody besides FOURFRONT using the system? They responded to my e-mail, asking how I found their website.

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5 hours ago, timbley2 said:

 Is anybody besides FOURFRONT using the system? They responded to my e-mail, asking how I found their website.

 

Not to my knowledge. I no longer participate in the day-to-day operations of Cognaural, so there may be things of which I am unaware.

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19 hours ago, tromprof said:

I use multi channel (stereo to 7.1) all the time. JRiver does the conversion for me and does an excellent job.

My Integra pre/pro can also do this but JRiver seems to do a better job and is easily tweaked. 

Interesting. I tried JRiver this evening on my macbook but so far haven't got it to send a 5.1 signal to my receiver. 

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5 hours ago, timbley2 said:

Interesting. I tried JRiver this evening on my macbook but so far haven't got it to send a 5.1 signal to my receiver. 

Go to Tools

Then DSP studio

Output format

At this point look for channels on the right hand side. There is a drop down box that will allow you to configure the number of output channels. 

Effects in DSP studio will allow you to decide how much side/rear you want added.

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18 hours ago, tromprof said:

Go to Tools

Then DSP studio

Output format

At this point look for channels on the right hand side. There is a drop down box that will allow you to configure the number of output channels. 

Effects in DSP studio will allow you to decide how much side/rear you want added.

It gives me an error if I do anything other than 2 channel. I'm using optical out. Perhaps it needs HDMI.

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